What is a binaural file?
Moderator: EMG
14 posts
• Page 1 of 1
What is a binaural file?
by bilijana » November 23rd, 2005, 5:59 pm
I don't see an explaination anywhere, and I'm quite curious.
- bilijana
- Regular
- Posts: 55
- Joined: July 30th, 2005, 12:00 am
by stefan4711 » November 23rd, 2005, 6:43 pm
Hi,
You can read more about binaural beats etc for instance on the following site.
http://www.consciousdreaming.com/lucid-dreaming/brainwave-entrainment-info.htm
Good luck
You can read more about binaural beats etc for instance on the following site.
http://www.consciousdreaming.com/lucid-dreaming/brainwave-entrainment-info.htm
Good luck
- stefan4711
- Regular
- Posts: 52
- Joined: October 1st, 2005, 12:00 am
by xool » November 28th, 2005, 8:06 pm
[quote="stefan4711"]Hi,
You can read more about binaural beats etc for instance on the following site.
http://www.consciousdreaming.com/lucid-dreaming/brainwave-entrainment-info.htm
Good luck[/quote]
It has gone or it is down at the moment :(
You can read more about binaural beats etc for instance on the following site.
http://www.consciousdreaming.com/lucid-dreaming/brainwave-entrainment-info.htm
Good luck[/quote]
It has gone or it is down at the moment :(
- xool
- Newbie
- Posts: 18
- Joined: October 9th, 2005, 12:00 am
Binaural Beats
by wdbames » November 28th, 2005, 10:55 pm
My understanding is that Binaurals are a method to put Your mind into
a hyppnotically receptive state. Under Hypnosis You are in what is called a theta state. Brainwaves from 4 to 8 Hz, Lower frequency being deeper in trance. You can't just produce a 4Hz tone, because it is too low a frequency for the ear to hear. The solution? Produce higher tones, but make the left ear and right ear hear the same tone with a 4Hz offset.
It turns out You can take the spoken audio, make it stereo if it isn't already, and raise or lower the frequency of the audio in one channel
by 4Hz, then Output the whole thing as an MP3 Audio file. The result is that it fools Your brain into thinking it is recieving a 4Hz tone, and the brainwaves fall into step with that tone.
The final effect being, of course, that You fall into trance more easily.
a hyppnotically receptive state. Under Hypnosis You are in what is called a theta state. Brainwaves from 4 to 8 Hz, Lower frequency being deeper in trance. You can't just produce a 4Hz tone, because it is too low a frequency for the ear to hear. The solution? Produce higher tones, but make the left ear and right ear hear the same tone with a 4Hz offset.
It turns out You can take the spoken audio, make it stereo if it isn't already, and raise or lower the frequency of the audio in one channel
by 4Hz, then Output the whole thing as an MP3 Audio file. The result is that it fools Your brain into thinking it is recieving a 4Hz tone, and the brainwaves fall into step with that tone.
The final effect being, of course, that You fall into trance more easily.
- wdbames
- Regular
- Posts: 30
- Joined: June 4th, 2005, 12:00 am
Re: Binaural Beats
by dgrade » December 11th, 2005, 1:39 pm
[quote="wdbames"]My understanding is that Binaurals are a method to put Your mind into
a hyppnotically receptive state. Under Hypnosis You are in what is called a theta state. Brainwaves from 4 to 8 Hz, Lower frequency being deeper in trance. You can't just produce a 4Hz tone, because it is too low a frequency for the ear to hear. The solution? Produce higher tones, but make the left ear and right ear hear the same tone with a 4Hz offset.
It turns out You can take the spoken audio, make it stereo if it isn't already, and raise or lower the frequency of the audio in one channel
by 4Hz, then Output the whole thing as an MP3 Audio file. The result is that it fools Your brain into thinking it is recieving a 4Hz tone, and the brainwaves fall into step with that tone.
The final effect being, of course, that You fall into trance more easily.[/quote]
I under the basic theory behind Brain Entertainment, and have experienced some impressive results with BrainWave Generator.
Can you provide further specific details on editing the files?
Here is what I've done in my own tinkering. Using Adobe Audition I open one of EMG's files. I select all of the right channel and go to Effects > Time/Pitch > Pitch Correction. Using the Left channel as a refrence I change the calibration of the Right channel to be 1/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/ihz higher than the left.
The result is pretty bizarre to hear a voice in the Binaurual patern I am more used to hearing beats in. It's a little disorienting and caused mild vertigo when I stopped listening.
Perhaps you could walk us through how you do it and with your program of choice. With EMG's invitation to extend a 1 month free premium membership to people making binurals I'm sure there are a few of us with the exsisting skill sets to help.
a hyppnotically receptive state. Under Hypnosis You are in what is called a theta state. Brainwaves from 4 to 8 Hz, Lower frequency being deeper in trance. You can't just produce a 4Hz tone, because it is too low a frequency for the ear to hear. The solution? Produce higher tones, but make the left ear and right ear hear the same tone with a 4Hz offset.
It turns out You can take the spoken audio, make it stereo if it isn't already, and raise or lower the frequency of the audio in one channel
by 4Hz, then Output the whole thing as an MP3 Audio file. The result is that it fools Your brain into thinking it is recieving a 4Hz tone, and the brainwaves fall into step with that tone.
The final effect being, of course, that You fall into trance more easily.[/quote]
I under the basic theory behind Brain Entertainment, and have experienced some impressive results with BrainWave Generator.
Can you provide further specific details on editing the files?
Here is what I've done in my own tinkering. Using Adobe Audition I open one of EMG's files. I select all of the right channel and go to Effects > Time/Pitch > Pitch Correction. Using the Left channel as a refrence I change the calibration of the Right channel to be 1/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/ihz higher than the left.
The result is pretty bizarre to hear a voice in the Binaurual patern I am more used to hearing beats in. It's a little disorienting and caused mild vertigo when I stopped listening.
Perhaps you could walk us through how you do it and with your program of choice. With EMG's invitation to extend a 1 month free premium membership to people making binurals I'm sure there are a few of us with the exsisting skill sets to help.
- dgrade
- Newbie
- Posts: 18
- Joined: October 26th, 2005, 12:00 am
by aeroue » December 13th, 2005, 5:14 pm
Free stuff for binaurals eh, I recommend Sharm it was going around certain circles a while ago though I think it diappeared.
A look at torrentspy.com may result in more info.
On the subject of free I may make some :D
A look at torrentspy.com may result in more info.
On the subject of free I may make some :D
- aeroue
- Mentor
- Posts: 143
- Joined: April 10th, 2005, 12:00 am
Re: Binaural Beats
by davelowe1977 » December 14th, 2005, 3:20 pm
[quote="dgrade":88fdbf/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/ic][quote="wdbames":88fdbf/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/ic]My understanding is that Binaurals are a method to put Your mind into
a hyppnotically receptive state. Under Hypnosis You are in what is called a theta state. Brainwaves from 4 to 8 Hz, Lower frequency being deeper in trance. You can't just produce a 4Hz tone, because it is too low a frequency for the ear to hear. The solution? Produce higher tones, but make the left ear and right ear hear the same tone with a 4Hz offset.
It turns out You can take the spoken audio, make it stereo if it isn't already, and raise or lower the frequency of the audio in one channel
by 4Hz, then Output the whole thing as an MP3 Audio file. The result is that it fools Your brain into thinking it is recieving a 4Hz tone, and the brainwaves fall into step with that tone.
The final effect being, of course, that You fall into trance more easily.[/quote:88fdbf/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/ic]
I under the basic theory behind Brain Entertainment, and have experienced some impressive results with BrainWave Generator.
Can you provide further specific details on editing the files?
Here is what I've done in my own tinkering. Using Adobe Audition I open one of EMG's files. I select all of the right channel and go to Effects > Time/Pitch > Pitch Correction. Using the Left channel as a refrence I change the calibration of the Right channel to be 1/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/ihz higher than the left.
The result is pretty bizarre to hear a voice in the Binaurual patern I am more used to hearing beats in. It's a little disorienting and caused mild vertigo when I stopped listening.
Perhaps you could walk us through how you do it and with your program of choice. With EMG's invitation to extend a 1 month free premium membership to people making binurals I'm sure there are a few of us with the exsisting skill sets to help.[/quote:88fdbf/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/ic]
To my mind this method won't work. If I understand correctly, you are simply lengthening one side of the stereo field and then listening to both channels in stereo headphones. If this is the case, then you aren't creating a beating tone required for brainwave synchronisation. What is happening is that you are simply making the file longer. For example at 1/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/iHz, the first 1/1/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i of a second of the file will be bi-aural, but then a further delay in the 2/1/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/ith of a second will be further appart until after a while it sounds like a tape being played underwater (after 1/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i seconds there would be a 1 second delay between channels).
If that is not the case I can only assume you are raising raising the pitch of one side by 1/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/iHz (completely the wrong approach) in which case you get EMG in one channel plus EMG in chipmunk mode in the other.
I apologise if I mis-understood but there is a simple solution. Obtain :wink: Cool Edit Pro 2/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i. It has a built in brainwave synchronizer. You just open a file, select 8Hz and presto all done!
a hyppnotically receptive state. Under Hypnosis You are in what is called a theta state. Brainwaves from 4 to 8 Hz, Lower frequency being deeper in trance. You can't just produce a 4Hz tone, because it is too low a frequency for the ear to hear. The solution? Produce higher tones, but make the left ear and right ear hear the same tone with a 4Hz offset.
It turns out You can take the spoken audio, make it stereo if it isn't already, and raise or lower the frequency of the audio in one channel
by 4Hz, then Output the whole thing as an MP3 Audio file. The result is that it fools Your brain into thinking it is recieving a 4Hz tone, and the brainwaves fall into step with that tone.
The final effect being, of course, that You fall into trance more easily.[/quote:88fdbf/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/ic]
I under the basic theory behind Brain Entertainment, and have experienced some impressive results with BrainWave Generator.
Can you provide further specific details on editing the files?
Here is what I've done in my own tinkering. Using Adobe Audition I open one of EMG's files. I select all of the right channel and go to Effects > Time/Pitch > Pitch Correction. Using the Left channel as a refrence I change the calibration of the Right channel to be 1/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/ihz higher than the left.
The result is pretty bizarre to hear a voice in the Binaurual patern I am more used to hearing beats in. It's a little disorienting and caused mild vertigo when I stopped listening.
Perhaps you could walk us through how you do it and with your program of choice. With EMG's invitation to extend a 1 month free premium membership to people making binurals I'm sure there are a few of us with the exsisting skill sets to help.[/quote:88fdbf/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/ic]
To my mind this method won't work. If I understand correctly, you are simply lengthening one side of the stereo field and then listening to both channels in stereo headphones. If this is the case, then you aren't creating a beating tone required for brainwave synchronisation. What is happening is that you are simply making the file longer. For example at 1/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/iHz, the first 1/1/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i of a second of the file will be bi-aural, but then a further delay in the 2/1/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/ith of a second will be further appart until after a while it sounds like a tape being played underwater (after 1/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i seconds there would be a 1 second delay between channels).
If that is not the case I can only assume you are raising raising the pitch of one side by 1/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/iHz (completely the wrong approach) in which case you get EMG in one channel plus EMG in chipmunk mode in the other.
I apologise if I mis-understood but there is a simple solution. Obtain :wink: Cool Edit Pro 2/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i. It has a built in brainwave synchronizer. You just open a file, select 8Hz and presto all done!
- davelowe1977
- Mentor
- Posts: 161
- Joined: June 19th, 2005, 12:00 am
Re: Binaural Beats
by dgrade » December 14th, 2005, 4:33 pm
[quote="davelowe1977":1e8/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/ief4/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i]
I apologise if I mis-understood but there is a simple solution. Obtain :wink: Cool Edit Pro 2/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i. It has a built in brainwave synchronizer. You just open a file, select 8Hz and presto all done![/quote:1e8/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/ief4/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i]
You understood completely. I actually should have amended that post a while ago. Almost immediately after I posted it I figured out how to do the Beats correctly with Audition. It has a Binaural Auto-Panner (I understand this is a descendant feature of Cool Edit Pro’s Brainwave Generator) which allows you to shape how you want the source "beaten". For instance taking a look at the time the induction takes on a specific file you can start with 1/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/ihz and ramp slowly down to 8hz by the time you're getting towards the end of the induction, maintaining 8hz all the way through until the wake-up portion of the file in which I ramp up to 2/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/ihz in a hurry. This is startlingly effective.
One thing that is important to remember though is if you're saving your work in MP3 format do not let your encoder save it in "Joint Stereo" or (J-Stereo) as that completely blows the whole point. Also if you have 5.1 Stereo Headset make sure you set your sound card to only output 2/2.1 while you're listening to any binaural (for Creative soundcards you must use the Creative Audio Console, not the Windows Sound manager).
I apologise if I mis-understood but there is a simple solution. Obtain :wink: Cool Edit Pro 2/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i. It has a built in brainwave synchronizer. You just open a file, select 8Hz and presto all done![/quote:1e8/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/ief4/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i]
You understood completely. I actually should have amended that post a while ago. Almost immediately after I posted it I figured out how to do the Beats correctly with Audition. It has a Binaural Auto-Panner (I understand this is a descendant feature of Cool Edit Pro’s Brainwave Generator) which allows you to shape how you want the source "beaten". For instance taking a look at the time the induction takes on a specific file you can start with 1/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/ihz and ramp slowly down to 8hz by the time you're getting towards the end of the induction, maintaining 8hz all the way through until the wake-up portion of the file in which I ramp up to 2/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/ihz in a hurry. This is startlingly effective.
One thing that is important to remember though is if you're saving your work in MP3 format do not let your encoder save it in "Joint Stereo" or (J-Stereo) as that completely blows the whole point. Also if you have 5.1 Stereo Headset make sure you set your sound card to only output 2/2.1 while you're listening to any binaural (for Creative soundcards you must use the Creative Audio Console, not the Windows Sound manager).
- dgrade
- Newbie
- Posts: 18
- Joined: October 26th, 2005, 12:00 am
Re: Binaural Beats
by davelowe1977 » December 16th, 2005, 4:15 pm
[quote="dgrade"]
One thing that is important to remember though is if you're saving your work in MP3 format do not let your encoder save it in "Joint Stereo" or (J-Stereo) as that completely blows the whole point. Also if you have 5.1 Stereo Headset make sure you set your sound card to only output 2/2.1 while you're listening to any binaural (for Creative soundcards you must use the Creative Audio Console, not the Windows Sound manager).[/quote]
That is an interesting and very true point. In my mind it opens a can of worms about the effectiveness of all the subliminal files.
Quick revision: topic file compression (for the non-techies!):
mp3 format is a lossy type of file compression. One of the ways this works is to eliminate sounds that cannot be heard by the (conscious) mind, methodologies include 'masking' etc. Masking occurs when a loud sound at one frequency masks a quieter one at a slightly different frequency so they are not included in the file. The file sounds identical to a non compressed format (ie .wav) on commercial tracks. zip files by contrast offer less compression (bigger files) but is loss-less (ie the full content can be completely re-assembled during de-compression). End of technical advice.
Now to the point. If the techniques employed in mp3 compression (such as masking) mask the sound of the voice in a subliminal (by using white (broad frequency noise), can we expect them to work? There are several answers: yes, no or maybe. A full scale scientific trial would answer this question, but in lieu of more informed advice, we are not likely to find an answer unless we undertake a study or employ expert advice. One answer might be to use noise at a suitable sound level but excluding frequencies that are essential to vocal communication (similar to telephone limitations). Another answer might be to distribute the subliminals in a zipped .wav format. Maybe the subconscious fills in the gaps in the missing sound (I doubt this). My only goal in discussing this subject is to improve the effectiveness of the subliminals if this even needs to be done. Maybe this lossy effect helps the subliminals (again doubt) Either way, I salute the efforts of EMG and jerm et al in making these files and can only hope my thoughts will help.
I open the floor to discussion!
----- Dave (part time audio engineer)
One thing that is important to remember though is if you're saving your work in MP3 format do not let your encoder save it in "Joint Stereo" or (J-Stereo) as that completely blows the whole point. Also if you have 5.1 Stereo Headset make sure you set your sound card to only output 2/2.1 while you're listening to any binaural (for Creative soundcards you must use the Creative Audio Console, not the Windows Sound manager).[/quote]
That is an interesting and very true point. In my mind it opens a can of worms about the effectiveness of all the subliminal files.
Quick revision: topic file compression (for the non-techies!):
mp3 format is a lossy type of file compression. One of the ways this works is to eliminate sounds that cannot be heard by the (conscious) mind, methodologies include 'masking' etc. Masking occurs when a loud sound at one frequency masks a quieter one at a slightly different frequency so they are not included in the file. The file sounds identical to a non compressed format (ie .wav) on commercial tracks. zip files by contrast offer less compression (bigger files) but is loss-less (ie the full content can be completely re-assembled during de-compression). End of technical advice.
Now to the point. If the techniques employed in mp3 compression (such as masking) mask the sound of the voice in a subliminal (by using white (broad frequency noise), can we expect them to work? There are several answers: yes, no or maybe. A full scale scientific trial would answer this question, but in lieu of more informed advice, we are not likely to find an answer unless we undertake a study or employ expert advice. One answer might be to use noise at a suitable sound level but excluding frequencies that are essential to vocal communication (similar to telephone limitations). Another answer might be to distribute the subliminals in a zipped .wav format. Maybe the subconscious fills in the gaps in the missing sound (I doubt this). My only goal in discussing this subject is to improve the effectiveness of the subliminals if this even needs to be done. Maybe this lossy effect helps the subliminals (again doubt) Either way, I salute the efforts of EMG and jerm et al in making these files and can only hope my thoughts will help.
I open the floor to discussion!
----- Dave (part time audio engineer)
- davelowe1977
- Mentor
- Posts: 161
- Joined: June 19th, 2005, 12:00 am
Re: Binaural Beats
by wdbames » December 16th, 2005, 5:31 pm
[quote="davelowe1977"][quote="dgrade"]
One thing that is important to remember though is if you're saving your work in MP3 format do not let your encoder save it in "Joint Stereo" or (J-Stereo) as that completely blows the whole point. Also if you have 5.1 Stereo Headset make sure you set your sound card to only output 2/2.1 while you're listening to any binaural (for Creative soundcards you must use the Creative Audio Console, not the Windows Sound manager).[/quote]
That is an interesting and very true point. In my mind it opens a can of worms about the effectiveness of all the subliminal files.
Quick revision: topic file compression (for the non-techies!):
mp3 format is a lossy type of file compression. One of the ways this works is to eliminate sounds that cannot be heard by the (conscious) mind, methodologies include 'masking' etc. Masking occurs when a loud sound at one frequency masks a quieter one at a slightly different frequency so they are not included in the file. The file sounds identical to a non compressed format (ie .wav) on commercial tracks. zip files by contrast offer less compression (bigger files) but is loss-less (ie the full content can be completely re-assembled during de-compression). End of technical advice.
Now to the point. If the techniques employed in mp3 compression (such as masking) mask the sound of the voice in a subliminal (by using white (broad frequency noise), can we expect them to work? There are several answers: yes, no or maybe. A full scale scientific trial would answer this question, but in lieu of more informed advice, we are not likely to find an answer unless we undertake a study or employ expert advice. One answer might be to use noise at a suitable sound level but excluding frequencies that are essential to vocal communication (similar to telephone limitations). Another answer might be to distribute the subliminals in a zipped .wav format. Maybe the subconscious fills in the gaps in the missing sound (I doubt this). My only goal in discussing this subject is to improve the effectiveness of the subliminals if this even needs to be done. Maybe this lossy effect helps the subliminals (again doubt) Either way, I salute the efforts of EMG and jerm et al in making these files and can only hope my thoughts will help.
I open the floor to discussion!
----- Dave (part time audio engineer)[/quote]
We're straying off the subject of binaurals, however I concede the possibility that subliminals could become a problem in MP3 at too low of a bitrate. I see two possible approaches:
1. Raise the bitrate to an acceptable level, if there is one. This would involve some research and experimentation.
2. Switch to "Supraliminals." This involves keeping the message at a high volume, but increasing the audio frequency to around 15.5KHz. Which is at the fringe of the audible range. Assuming MP3 can perform acceptably at this frequency, we should be O.K. Next overlay binaural beat music and compress to a suitable MP3 stream. I have tried this approach and found it at least as effective as subliminals.
If anyone has more information on these topics, I invite comment, Correction, Clarification, or even a flame if You feel I'm way off base. :)
One thing that is important to remember though is if you're saving your work in MP3 format do not let your encoder save it in "Joint Stereo" or (J-Stereo) as that completely blows the whole point. Also if you have 5.1 Stereo Headset make sure you set your sound card to only output 2/2.1 while you're listening to any binaural (for Creative soundcards you must use the Creative Audio Console, not the Windows Sound manager).[/quote]
That is an interesting and very true point. In my mind it opens a can of worms about the effectiveness of all the subliminal files.
Quick revision: topic file compression (for the non-techies!):
mp3 format is a lossy type of file compression. One of the ways this works is to eliminate sounds that cannot be heard by the (conscious) mind, methodologies include 'masking' etc. Masking occurs when a loud sound at one frequency masks a quieter one at a slightly different frequency so they are not included in the file. The file sounds identical to a non compressed format (ie .wav) on commercial tracks. zip files by contrast offer less compression (bigger files) but is loss-less (ie the full content can be completely re-assembled during de-compression). End of technical advice.
Now to the point. If the techniques employed in mp3 compression (such as masking) mask the sound of the voice in a subliminal (by using white (broad frequency noise), can we expect them to work? There are several answers: yes, no or maybe. A full scale scientific trial would answer this question, but in lieu of more informed advice, we are not likely to find an answer unless we undertake a study or employ expert advice. One answer might be to use noise at a suitable sound level but excluding frequencies that are essential to vocal communication (similar to telephone limitations). Another answer might be to distribute the subliminals in a zipped .wav format. Maybe the subconscious fills in the gaps in the missing sound (I doubt this). My only goal in discussing this subject is to improve the effectiveness of the subliminals if this even needs to be done. Maybe this lossy effect helps the subliminals (again doubt) Either way, I salute the efforts of EMG and jerm et al in making these files and can only hope my thoughts will help.
I open the floor to discussion!
----- Dave (part time audio engineer)[/quote]
We're straying off the subject of binaurals, however I concede the possibility that subliminals could become a problem in MP3 at too low of a bitrate. I see two possible approaches:
1. Raise the bitrate to an acceptable level, if there is one. This would involve some research and experimentation.
2. Switch to "Supraliminals." This involves keeping the message at a high volume, but increasing the audio frequency to around 15.5KHz. Which is at the fringe of the audible range. Assuming MP3 can perform acceptably at this frequency, we should be O.K. Next overlay binaural beat music and compress to a suitable MP3 stream. I have tried this approach and found it at least as effective as subliminals.
If anyone has more information on these topics, I invite comment, Correction, Clarification, or even a flame if You feel I'm way off base. :)
WDBames
---------------------------
You are relaxed and obedient....
So completely relaxed.
---------------------------
You are relaxed and obedient....
So completely relaxed.
- wdbames
- Regular
- Posts: 30
- Joined: June 4th, 2005, 12:00 am
by dgrade » December 16th, 2005, 8:21 pm
I hesitate to post this (I don't like to knock anyone’s belief in anything), but seeing as how most people here seem to have a short attention span and this is now at the bottom of a very long technical thread I will share with you my observations on subliminal messages:
***SPOILER ALERT***
There have been thousands of case studies all across the globe. Different methods, different mediums, it's all been done. Subliminals do not work. There are subliminal queues like Red is supposed to make you thirsty and Orange makes you hungry, etc... but there is no evidence to support that subliminal messages are even reaching your subconscious. The reason the colors work is because of your "Reptilian" brain responding to very simple stimuli, but language is not being processed at this level. Think about how you watch TV... do you "zone out" during the commercials? That's a trance; your consciousness is not challenging the information going in. Guess what... You aren't buying life insurance and Nike's with reckless abandon. This is the same principle the subliminal files are trying to employ and it is one of a few things on here that really does a disservice to the site as it is completely unfounded with no scientific basis. In order for a suggestion to reach your subconscious your conscious mind must first parse the suggestion from English into ideas the subconscious mind can understand.
***SPOILER ALERT***
EMG or any moderator that feels this message is potentially harmful to the community even with the warning is welcome to remove it, as I really don't want to hurt anyones belief. It just seemed appropriate here that while we are talking shop and trying to get serious about the tech behind everything we should fess up on this point.
***SPOILER ALERT***
There have been thousands of case studies all across the globe. Different methods, different mediums, it's all been done. Subliminals do not work. There are subliminal queues like Red is supposed to make you thirsty and Orange makes you hungry, etc... but there is no evidence to support that subliminal messages are even reaching your subconscious. The reason the colors work is because of your "Reptilian" brain responding to very simple stimuli, but language is not being processed at this level. Think about how you watch TV... do you "zone out" during the commercials? That's a trance; your consciousness is not challenging the information going in. Guess what... You aren't buying life insurance and Nike's with reckless abandon. This is the same principle the subliminal files are trying to employ and it is one of a few things on here that really does a disservice to the site as it is completely unfounded with no scientific basis. In order for a suggestion to reach your subconscious your conscious mind must first parse the suggestion from English into ideas the subconscious mind can understand.
***SPOILER ALERT***
EMG or any moderator that feels this message is potentially harmful to the community even with the warning is welcome to remove it, as I really don't want to hurt anyones belief. It just seemed appropriate here that while we are talking shop and trying to get serious about the tech behind everything we should fess up on this point.
- dgrade
- Newbie
- Posts: 18
- Joined: October 26th, 2005, 12:00 am
by stefan4711 » December 17th, 2005, 6:49 pm
I guess it all comes down to how much you are able to beleive a thing or not. If you are able to accept suggestions easily sublims will work if your mind is overanalyzing you will have problems with both subliminals and normal files. :)
- stefan4711
- Regular
- Posts: 52
- Joined: October 1st, 2005, 12:00 am
Re: Binaural Beats
by homerj1620 » December 17th, 2005, 11:07 pm
[quote="wdbames"]We're straying off the subject of binaurals, however I concede the possibility that subliminals could become a problem in MP3 at too low of a bitrate. I see two possible approaches:[/quote]
As a bit of an audiophile I just have to say don't encode mp3s at a specific bitrate if you care about quality. Use VBR and quality-based encoding. Different things sound good at different bitrates. Using quality-based encoding will pick what bitrates per frame needed to preserve a certain quality level.
LAME does it for mp3, and oggenc does it for OGG Vorbis (IMHO, sounds much better than mp3).
As a bit of an audiophile I just have to say don't encode mp3s at a specific bitrate if you care about quality. Use VBR and quality-based encoding. Different things sound good at different bitrates. Using quality-based encoding will pick what bitrates per frame needed to preserve a certain quality level.
LAME does it for mp3, and oggenc does it for OGG Vorbis (IMHO, sounds much better than mp3).
- homerj1620
- Mentor
- Posts: 177
- Joined: April 4th, 2005, 12:00 am
14 posts
• Page 1 of 1
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 75 guests