Generic24 wrote:
Generic, do you have obsessive-compulsive disorder or obsessive-compulsive personality disorder?
Anyway, the first thing I noticed about your post is that you said "maybe I'm 100% straight sexually." Dude, no one is 100% straight sexually! Just ask those ultra-masculine studs in prison. I think you're setting an unrealistic goal for yourself and making yourself miserable in the process.
I found the web pages interesting but a bit naive and suggestive of someone who's just trying to deny his own sexuality. That's an old story, sadly.
In fact, our sexuality seems to be a complex tapestry of genetics -- there's a 50% chance that a gay guy's identical twin will also be gay -- early childhood experience, and social influence. Such is the power of the latter that there have been societies in which gay sex was preferred to straight sex, e.g., the ancient Greeks and Celts. We are certainly not, as most seem to believe, just gay or straight and born that way, or able to choose whatever we want. Most of us are probably best described as innately bisexual with a genetic remnant of a biological straight preference but subject to programming of the subconscious mind.
I disagree with his belief that looking at porn will turn you into a tranny-lover or the like if that isn't consistent with your sexuality. Which is to say that I think the notion that merely looking at pictures of people getting it on with puppy dogs will turn you on to bestiality is ridiculous, *unless* you have a repressed desire to get it on with puppy dogs. Another way of looking at it is that if a gay guy wanted to turn straight, whacking off to a copy of Playboy wouldn't help. God knows, millions of gay teens have tried that out of desperation, looking at straight porn, dating girls, all to no avail. If porn could have done the trick, don't you think it would have?
I do think that porn can unmask areas of our personal sexuality that we haven't discovered, because the nature of our sexual instincts is that they remain latent unless triggered by observation. Which has happened in your case -- a bit of bisexuality has emerged, or else a fetish for forbidden sex.
And I guess that brings me back to my original intuition -- that the real issue here for you isn't having these urges. I mean, at 18, you probably still think that kinks are a lot less common than they actually are. At least I did at that age. It took me years to discover that other people were kinky as well. Sue wants Joe to tie her up, Joe wants to dress like sue, Spot humps the dining room table.
Which brings me back to my original intuition -- that the right course for you is to accept that this is a harmless and ordinary part of male sexuality, rather than using the bludgeon of hypnosis to "cure" yourself. Speaking as someone who has used these files to change his orientation (and has no objection at all to others wanting to do the same), these are psychological weapons of mass destruction. They will change you, yes, but in your case, I think it would be like Charlie Chaplin trying to fix the pocket watch with a mallet. Did you know that if you ask a guy in India he'll tell you that guys are sexually attracted to other guys, but women can't know? Did you know that in Mexico, it's acceptable for a straight guy to penetrate a gay guy, but not the other way around? That in the homophobic Arab world, young guys use gay guys for sex because premarital sex is virtually impossible to come by? And on and on.
No sense in letting social pressure manipulate you into "curing" something that's normal.
Yeah lol I'm pretty sure I've had OCD most of my life, there are quite alot of minor symptoms I have of it. I'm also pretty sure that I have HOCD. Every single symptom of textbook HOCD matches up with me. Now I know for many they use HOCD as a scapegoat and are just in denial, but their cases are vastly different.
As to your disbelief about tranny porn, I think the clear distinction is that those who get off to it aren't interested in real life. There were some accounts on YBOP detailing this, that some of them had tried it in real life and were disgusted the whole way through and didn't find it enjoyable at all. Yet when they looked at porn they were able to get off to tranny's. The same goes for bestiality porn or rape porn. Do those who end up getting off to it want to do it in real life? Absolutely not. But the novelty and dopamine can provide some "shock arousal". I don't see how the articles were naive when all they did was provide evidence and drew some logical conclusions from them.
Here is an interesting excert from
http://www.yourbrainonporn.com/are-sexual-tastes-immutable
"The suggestion that sexual tastes can be profoundly re-conditioned is not purely theoretical. A male rat can be conditioned to prefer a same-sex partner by jacking up his dopamine. And it doesn't take very long. Researchers injected a male rat with a dopamine agonist (a drug that mimics dopamine), and then placed him in a cage with another male. The two rats just hung out together for a day. (The dopamine agonist is out of the system in about one day.) Researchers repeated this 2 more times, 4 days apart.
A few days later, the reconditioned male was put to the test. With no dopamine agonist in his system, he was placed into a cage with his male buddy and sexually receptive female (remember the dopamine was out of his system). Guess which rat turned him on the most? He showed much more response to the male: more erections, more genital investigation, and even female-like solicitations —as opposed to normal male mounting behavior.
Lesson? High levels of dopamine can powerfully rewire the brain and alter sexual tastes. The researchers emphasized that the male rat wasn't gay, as he didn't try to mount the other rat. Yet he had definitely changed. Similarly, continued porn use can't change your sexual orientation, but it can change what type of porn excites you. Desensitized porn users (low D2 receptors) search for whatever will jack up their lagging dopamine."
And he didn't make any of this up. The actual study is listed to double check what the article says.
http://www.reuniting.info/download/pdf/homosexual.gay.rats.pdf
This make a hell of a lot of sense when it comes to porn.
Also one more question, are you saying you don't believe kingy or norcalkid are now 100% straight?[/quote]
I had to look up HOCD, and what I read reinforced my sense that it would be a mistake to attack this by trying to suppress the gay fantasies. The site I read at any rate said that the right approach wasn't to try to rid yourself of the thoughts, or conversely, to conlude that you're really gay. It recommends instead a cognitive approach in which one elimiates the habits of thought that serve and reinforce the HOCD. It seems to me that hypnosis could accomplish the same thing.
One way of looking at it would be that by seeking to suppress this part of your sexuality, you are giving into and reinforcing your HOCD. Whereas if you attack the HOCD, you're eliminating your fear. I've learned a lot about this by listening to the various files here, learned how things that scare or disgust me stop doing so when I listen to a file that makes me go in that direction, even if only temporarily. For example, while I have strong sissy tendencies (see below), I was always been turned off by fem behavior in guys -- it disgusted me (which means the impulse was repressed -- see the stuff on the reaction formation, below). Also, I had a typical straight guy's response to homosexuality -- I'd see guys walking hand in hand and so forth and it would make me really anxious. And all of tha went away when I listened to Stroke Sissy and Curse Forced Gay. By unrepressing these impulses in myself, I lost my fear of them. Even when it was temporary, as in the case of fem behavior (I managed to escape Stroke Sissy and the effects wore off).
I don't think this is precisely analogous to what you're experiencing -- I think you want to eliminate the HOCD, not explore your gay side. But my point is that I learned how this is so tied up with *our own thought processes,* that so much to which we assign objective reality )(I feel bad about being gay, that swishy lisping sissy disgusts me) is just what happens to be in our head and can be changed with hypnosis. So if you eliminate the fear that underlies your HOCD, you've solved the problem. You can be whoever you are without worrying about it one way or the other.
I agree with your/their point about tranny porn and porn in general. It is possible to be turned on by porn and not in real life. I've experienced this myself. I think it's because porn is only part of the picture, the visual arousal circuits. There's more to our sexual behavior than that. Actually, I think it flips both ways. After all, a guy who is disgusted by or indifferent to pictures of naked guys can get off physically with another guy. Kids do it, prisoners do it.
Human sexuality is a lot more complicated than the traditional gay/straight dichotomy suggests. I know people who have gay thoughts in only certain scenarios -- for example, when dressed as a woman. Hell, I was like that myself, the only time I was ever turned on by the thought of sex with a man was when I fantasized that I'd had a sex change operation and had the body of a woman. Often, our impulses are at odds with themselves. Again, using myself as an example, I wanted a woman's body as part of my secondary (not primary) sexuality, and actually took hormones as a kid in an attempt to get one. But I wasn't a transsexual -- I didn't feel I was a woman inside, wasn't effeminate, and had no desire to live as a woman -- and I wasn't interested in crossdressing, as transvestites are. I just had a paraphelia that made me turned on at he thought of having a woman's body. (And still have part of it, although it was modified by hypnosis to make me want to be a shemale rather than a M to F transsexcual). So sexcual impulses can be contradictory and fractionated and it doesn't surprise me at all that someone might get off on gay porn but prove not to have gay instincts in real life.
Some guys here have used these files to overcome some of these confusions, e.g., a bi guy who used Curse Forced Gay to forcus exclusively on his gay side, or a guy who was sexually attracted to women but had poor real life relations with them and decided he'd rather be gay. I've done some of that myself, attempting to pull my sexuality into a more practical (albeit still offbeat) form. But I sense that your issue is somewhat different, a question of addressing the HOCD fear rather than a need to modify your sexuality in one or another direction.
The dopamine example is I think a misunderstanding of the significance of the scientific results. Of course administered dopamine will change our behavior, since it's the brain's reward chemical. Natural pleasure-seeking behaviors and unnatural ones such as drug addiction work with dopamine. But as the article itself points out, the dopamine didn't turn the male rats gay -- at best it triggered some of their sexual circuits and provided reward conditioning that made them want to hang out around male rats. The experimenters could have done the same thing with anything that the animal was conditioned to associate with a dopamine reward.
In fact, merely looking at something that doesn't interest us sexually won't release dopamine in the first place. To repeat my example, generations of gay kids haven't been able to change their sexuality by looking at Playboy, even though they are *very* motivated to do so. Psycyologists have tried again and again to change unwanted sexual behaviors by having subjects view "right thinking" pornographic material. It doesn't work and never has. What I sense in this web page is someone who is in denial of his own latent tendencies, and wants to pin them on porn rather than acknowledge them.
Which isn't to say that porn can't and doesn't influence our behaviors. But you have to be open to something. Forex, a guy who has a streak of bisexuality and likes both cocks and breasts may be turned on by shemales. But I know a lot of guys who are just grossed out by or indifferent to shemale porn. Probably most of them.
I've looked at so many different kinds of porn, out of curiosity about what would turn me on. Some of it does, some of it doesn't. Often, I can have different responses to even closely-related stuff. It is very specific to who I am, to who we are and the porn itself won't change that, although I've found that hypnosis can.
"Also one more question, are you saying you don't believe kingy or norcalkid are now 100% straight?" I think they'd be the best judges of that! I know that Curse Forced Gay didn't completely eliminate my straight side, although it tried to. I still feel some attraction to women, though it tends to be fleeting and I can't perform well enough to have sex with them anymore. Of course, I didn't actually want that suggestion and resisted it, but I've heard the same thing from others who have listened to Curse Forced Gay.
It isn't as if these files can eliminate what you were, because once something is in long-term memory, it will always be there. Rather, they repress it, and no repression is 100%. Given what we know of human sexuality, few if any people are actually 100% gay or straight anyway. The classic joke is that a gay guy is a straight guy who has had a couple of beers. (I've witnessed that in real life, straight friends who came on to me when they were tipsy and then were freaked out the next day, LOL.) Attraction to the other side is partly or entirely repressed, but even in the latter case it is there, latent. The symptom of that is reaction formation -- if a sexual activity makes you anxious, angry, etc., it's a sign that you have a repressed desire for it. This is why even tolerant straight guys are upset by seeing gay guys arm-in-arm, but get off on picures of lesbians. :-)
In any case, a lot of guys who used CFG have said that opposite-sex attraction was the last thing to go. I don't really know about CFS since while I listened to it a couple of times in an attempt to reverse CFG, I haven't read most of these threads. But in general, it's harder to get rid of things than it is to add them. The brain doesn't naturally forget, particularly when something has strong emotional significance. That's why it's so hard to treat for example trauma victims. Sure, you're unlikely to be mauled by a mountain lion again, but it requires a lot of time and patience and special techniques to get your subconscious mind to bury the fear it acquired when you were.
