The Ugly Side of Being a Jock (Discussion thread)

[rugbyjockca]

There are some parts of the stereotypical jock archetype that I'm not a huge fan of. Some jocks are homophobic and sexist, for example, and there are files that seem to reinforce that. Some dudes don't like how dumb some jocks seem to be, or how jocks are often portrayed as the bullies and some of us were bullied.

So this is a place to talk about the ugly side of your jock desires and jock nature. Talk about what bothers you, why, but why you still find yourself interested in being jocked and/or masculinized. Do you feel conflicted about your jock needs?

In other threads, these kinds of questions can derail the discussion, but I think they are important questions. For my own jock path, I'm having to make decisions and compromises, and thinking about these things is important to me. That said, I hope people can continue to be respectful of other peoples' kinks and keep things friendly and supportive.

[JD7790]

There's definitely a darker side to being a jock. Like you said, I don't want to start a fight, we're entitled to our own opinions and ill try to make my point without adding too much controversies.

The homophobic part makes me angry! I only listen to gay friendly files but I had to stop checking the CFS thread because I feel like some comment borders the homophobic.

I also never met a dumb jock either, I understand why dude looks for a change in interests to sports and working out but I feel like dumbing down to the levels described in some files is the social equivalent of shooting himself in the foot. You can't work in a society with an IQ of 90! I've met people who are dumb and stupid because of drug problem and shits and its not funny when the guy can't keep a job as a box mover. This is extreme o course by this is a real life case. I do find the idea of dumbing down temporarily very hot. The idea of not caring about tomorrow is appealing to me but I haven't find a file or a tist that can help me with that yet.

The sex drive is also starting to be a problem, at first it was great but right now, all I can think about is fucking. I'm working with nice looking dudes and I have trouble focusing on work.

I also started to become slightly move aggressive. I'm more impatient. But I feel like theses changes are welcomed as long as I can keep an eye on them. I can now stand tall and say No but I don't want to become that guy that starts a fight in a bar for no good reasons.

There's a lot to talk about but theses are my main issues with the subject. Please keep the conversation going, I'm deeply interested.

Otherwise, I don't know much about the pros and cons, I've been doing it for a month and I still feel like I have untapped potential and stuff to discover. Do I regret it? No, I'm way happier, confident and socially accepted this way. I just need to find the balance between the jock mindset and the work mindset.

It is good to have a community like this one, that way I know where to go if I need to talk. I met some of the best bros here and it's nice to have someone to talk to. If any bros wants to talk, I recommend them to open a thread on the forum or simply PM other bros here. Positive reinforcement and support are part of the most effective tools during a transformation.

[rigsby]

Outside of high school, the stereotypical "jerk jock" doesn't seem to exist.

A guy who excels in sports more than his fellow students can get away with being the alpha male and still a jerk. In the wider world, however, men are hardly ever rewarded alpha status just for being good athletes. As a result, jocks come in all kinds of variations.

We have to remember that it's still okay to be assertive (without being arrogant or belligerent), and that it's still okay to be horny, because we are sexual creatures. Beyond that, I believe the best defense against the ugly side of being a jock is to strive to be a "likeable jock" instead of a jerk. Whether you're a jock or not, likeability is an important skill to success in this society.

[slyfox]

Homophobia bothers me, but not much. I know it stems from insecurity, which in my view is counter to the jock ideal. How can you claim to be all masculine and confident when you let something like a dude's sexuality get to you? Fuck, if I was a straight dude I'd find it a compliment to get hit on by gay dudes.

As far as dumbness goes, it's no secret that I love getting dumbed down, but it's not something I'd want to experience all the time. It would be hard to get on with my life in the direction it's heading if I was just a dumb musclehead. Gotta be a smart musclehead!

Maybe it's the increased testosterone or something but since I started my jockification my libido has been through the roof. I spend a good majority of my day thinking about sex (when I'm not thinking about bodybuilding or sports XD). I just want to go cruising and have fun with other dudes and chicks. It's frustrating when it seriously makes it hard to concentrate on, you know, work things.

I've started becoming a lot more selfish and more judgmental, too. I mean, fuck, it was SO EASY for me to drop weight and put on a little muscle. When I hear excuses about why people can't get in shape I just feel like they're lazy and don't want to put in the little bit of effort that's required to get fit and stay fit. They'd rather wallow in self-pity and depression and eat another bucket of KFC. I was there! I know what it's like to be fat and unhappy about it. But I decided to change that, and you can too, mofo.

[rugbyjockca]

Like you, rigsby, I believe that jocks come in all shapes and sizes. The further I move along my own transformation, the more important it is for me to find a jock self that works for me, and have decided to encourage any other jocks to find the jockness that suits -them-. Playing on a rugby team helped me to learn what a "real" jock is, which is at base just a dude who plays some kind of sport. On my rugby team were bruisers and jerks, but also professionals, artists, and whatnot. Aggressive guys and quiet guys, leaders and followers, assholes and really nice and friendly dudes. Everyone is an individual at the end of the day, even those of us who want to be roboticized or completely brainwashed will experience and process those experiences in our own unique way.

With being dumb....honestly,. I sometimes think that there's a bit of prejudice hidden under some of the anti-dumbing down posts I've seen. It's like there's an assumption that being smarter is automatically better, and that people are giving up something really valuable when they pursue being dumbed down. I find this suspicious, because for one thing it's REALLY difficult to find a good definition of intelligence. A good score on an IQ test shows aptitude in some sets of skills, but IQ tests tend to be reliable only for people of certain cultures and backgrounds. What does it mean to be smart versus being dumb?

Also, part of the thrill for me in the transformation is being changed against my will, so there's always gonna be some tension between what I want, what I think I want, and what turns me on.

[quote]I've started becoming a lot more selfish and more judgmental, too. I mean, fuck, it was SO EASY for me to drop weight and put on a little muscle. When I hear excuses about why people can't get in shape I just feel like they're lazy and don't want to put in the little bit of effort that's required to get fit and stay fit. They'd rather wallow in self-pity and depression and eat another bucket of KFC. I was there! I know what it's like to be fat and unhappy about it. But I decided to change that, and you can too, mofo.[/quote]

I'm the same way a bit. But I try to remind myself how many times I heard advice from "the other side" and how little of it I was really ready to listen to. Getting in shape was a decision that had to come from inside me, and no one else would ever be able to convince me to change until I was ready. So as I start teaching other people to get in shape, I want to keep in mind that patience IS a virtue, and that everyone has their own keys to uinlock their potential. I can't FORCE anyone to change, and I can never know what they have to overcome. I had a major drinking problem that I had to work through, for example. So long as someone IS trying, I want to be encouraging with them, regardless of what set backs they have.

[Sentinel]

Coming from the 'tist perspective here. I definitely like dumb jocks (it's cathartic for my inner teenager, which is really where all our sexual desires took root anyway), but I can't really stand permanent dumbing down. It's (often) impractical, irresponsible, and it grates after a while in serious cases for me. :P

I mean, it's a nice fantasy. But fantasies are fantasies for a reason, sometimes. I'm more an advocate of what I like to call "airheaded". Carefree, occasional dumb moments but able to function from that chill mindset. I've seen some talk of surfers - that's way more close to what I would say is a good mindset.

[JD7790]

[quote="rugbyjockca"]With being dumb....honestly,. I sometimes think that there's a bit of prejudice hidden under some of the anti-dumbing down posts I've seen. It's like there's an assumption that being smarter is automatically better, and that people are giving up something really valuable when they pursue being dumbed down. I find this suspicious, because for one thing it's REALLY difficult to find a good definition of intelligence. A good score on an IQ test shows aptitude in some sets of skills, but IQ tests tend to be reliable only for people of certain cultures and backgrounds. What does it mean to be smart versus being dumb?[/quote]
Yeah, there's a lot of hate on dumb files on the forums. They just don't get it! What I hate is to see someone who becomes so uninterested in life that their curiosity just gets lost, I'm not talking about the curiosity in how stuff works but loosing that sense of discovery simply because of disinterest. I don't know if the files offered here can do this but I've met people who can't function in life without someone's help for simple stuff like math and reading, it wasn't a medical condition, they were simply stupid. They can't budget anything, they can't cook for shit, hell they can't even work simple jobs properly! I don't mind people being dumbed down, I mind about people going over the limit and screwing their life and that's in every aspect of life.

[quote="rugbyjockca"]Also, part of the thrill for me in the transformation is being changed against my will, so there's always gonna be some tension between what I want, what I think I want, and what turns me on.[/quote]
I know what you mean, at first I wanted to control everything and now I just want to enjoy the ride and let the files do their works.

[slyfox]

Isn't the loss of control pretty much the whole reason anyone on here likes to get hypnotized? :P I mean when you get down to it, you are willfully submitting your mind to changes that - whether you want them or not - are being made by someone else.

[rubbapig]

Bein English and livin in the UK we don't have the same sort of jock sub-culture here, or indeed the discrimination or 'jock hate'.. ther are of course 'jock types' but I don't think they identify themselves in quite the same way. So wen I started lissunin to the TTJ fials bak in Feb.. it was as more of a self help fing than a fantasy - an aid to get myself fit and look afta meself betta. If asked bak then wot I thort a jock was, I wud probably of thort of sumfing along the lines of sumwun out of a Bill & Ted film - and not sumfing I wud of aspired to be.

Howeva.. seems I like that idea rather more than I thort I did as got well into bein dummed down and am injoying the simpler ways of seein fings now. Used to be a bit of a grammer facist.. now I just don't fukkin kare. A few people have laffed at me, an a cuple saw fit to send me abuse. Wun person sent me several lengthy mails to tell me how I must stop at once.. the main reason for whitch seemed to be that he had a decent job and wasn't into that kind of fing. Now thers all sorts of weriod and wonderful fetishes catered for on WMM, all of whitch are fine - until, it seems, it cums to the subject of dummin down.

I get that for a lot of people, such an idea is simply not practical..howeva horny it mite be. Wheras for me, I hold down a full time job, help kare for 2 friends wiv mental health issues and seem to be managing just fine fanks. Its not that ive tried to make meself stupid.. have played a cuple dummin down fials but not seriously, its just that now I got different interests and wots important to me has changed sumwot. Its bin more of a like 'use it or lose it' kinda fing. I am baker so do I realy need to know wot the capital city of Ghana is? If I went out and spent 3 years studying the works of William Shakespere is that going to make the bread I make taste any betta? I wudnt of thort so.

I like the idea of wot Sentinel describes - bein airheaded. But also wiv bein made a little bit dummer generally wile still able to do wot I need to.

I feel less stressed.. less frustrated.. much more content in me job and happier generally. Perhaps its that that offends people?

Its still very much early days for me.. not bin goin to the gym very long and got a long way to go till I start getting the kind of body I want. Im hoping that wen I do start to see sum changes of that front that the jock confidence/arrogance will start to kick in a bit. And in turn perhaps a bit more assertive to. And yea.. wile it may not be a nice trait, I do like the thort of becummin a bit arrogant - esp if by dummin down a bit I have less reason to be. Spoze thers part of me that feels Im a bit to nice for me own gud and that it wud be gud if was less so.

[rubbapig]

...about me post yesterday..
Just wanna make clear that no-wun whos posted in this thred so far, or indeed any of the like regular postin jocks on here have eva given me any grief.

An that always found all the bros on the jock threds to be friendly and supportive.. even if not into wot I am themselfs. So fanks guys - U make bein a jock sumfing to be proud of!

[rugbyjockca]

Rubba, I love that you're a part of this forum. The changes you've made are amazing (have you ever gone back and looked at your old posts to compare them?), and even at your dumbest, I think you show good insight and have a handle on what you want and why.

I've pointed to rubbajock's posts sometimes as an example of a kind of ideal, because, just because he uses simple language, and maybe a bit of a low-brow way of speaking, in some ways he's still plenty smart.

Hypnosis and mindcontrol can't directly affect how the brain works, after all. So many factors go into intelligence that it's really, really a stretch to think that listening to a few mp3 files, even listening all day, is going to really change the neurons and your genetic makeup and personal history that's affected your intelligence and your personality.

[rubbapig]

Fanks rugby dude.. tho still got a long long way to go to get to wher I wanna be - still got the nerds body evun if am startin to fink more like a jock now.
Readin bak thru old posts - yea I have a cuple of times dude. An fuk man, I used to hate Americanisms and was like, No mate, its colour not color - if u don't wanna spell fings rite then don't call it English! haha WTF happened? lol And now im like.. bro..dude.. dats like fukkin awesum man. I get sum funny looks in work these days :-)

Dude.. I don't fink I am dum (or does sayin that prove that I am? lol)..and not as stupid as wud like to be. I don't feel im stupid. Neva cud spell well and now ive given up tryin. Don't spoze ive picked up a pen in a 2-3 munfs, and then was only to rite a birfday card. Don't rite in work at all. A lot of the stuff I rite online is dun on me fone an prob why sum of it cums out as text speek. I do now find it harder to find the rite word sumtimes, but altho had people advise against, I fink as my circumstances allows I wud definatley like to be more stupider.

Note that a cuple of u guys say that uve felt that uve becum a bit more agresive or jugemental - Now I actualy quite like that idea. Nuffin ova the top like. But feel that im like way to timid an accepting of otha pepole an wanna get away from bein so fukkin passive all the time. So wud welcum a bit of arrogance/aggression and wivout becumin a bigot or anyfin be more of a 'man' generally.

[rigsby]

[quote="Firebird/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i6":/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i4/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i94f7f]You all are exactly right. The dumbness, the attitude, the libido and aggressiveness are all things that many see as negative.

But just like with slyfox and rugby, I've had these changes and I absolutely love them dudes.

I've noticed I'm more aggressive at home and at work, that I'm more willing to stand my ground.

Sex is constantly on my mind, I look down on those who choose to be fat and not work out, and I'm making surprising mistakes while typing lately. The changes are surprising when I notice them, but I love them. I want them. I'm becoming what I want to be by letting go and losing control. And it's wonderful.[/quote:/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i4/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i94f7f]

Nothing at all wrong with being aggressive, bros. It's being combative or belligerent that's a problem.

[rugbyjockca]

Yeah, I don't know if it's the test in my system or what, but I'm definitely more assertive, and that's NOT a bad thing at all. I'm hoping that my loved ones will check in with me if I step across a line, but sometimes it's okay to just take what you want.

Off to the gym for leg day and you know I'm going to aggress the shit out of my deadlifts, lol. I've got a personal best to achieve....

[rigsby]

[quote="rugbyjockca":/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i2/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/idc3e1]Talk about what bothers you, why, but why you still find yourself interested in being jocked and/or masculinized. Do you feel conflicted about your jock needs?[/quote:/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i2/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/idc3e1]

There is one thing happening to me against my will as a result of my jock transformation. Fortunately, it isn't affecting my intellectual ability, but it's definitely having an impact on my intellectual curiosity.

Before I began working out, I loved to think endlessly about all kinds of abstractions and theories, both in technical areas and philosophical ones. That hasn't completely disappeared, but it's a lot less frequent. Now I find myself thinking, "It is what it is" more often instead. I don't consider this to be anything serious, but I'm concerned enough to want to keep my eye on it.

[slyfox]

[quote="rigsby"][quote="rugbyjockca"]Talk about what bothers you, why, but why you still find yourself interested in being jocked and/or masculinized. Do you feel conflicted about your jock needs?[/quote]

There is one thing happening to me against my will as a result of my jock transformation. Fortunately, it isn't affecting my intellectual ability, but it's definitely having an impact on my intellectual curiosity.

Before I began working out, I loved to think endlessly about all kinds of abstractions and theories, both in technical areas and philosophical ones. That hasn't completely disappeared, but it's a lot less frequent. Now I find myself thinking, "It is what it is" more often instead. I don't consider this to be anything serious, but I'm concerned enough to want to keep my eye on it.[/quote]

Scary, I've had the same issue. The more I think about jock-related things - bodybuilding, health, sports, etc. - the less I tend to think about non-jock-related things like philosophical concepts and technical stuff. I forget if I'm repeating myself here, but I find it very interesting that when my girl tries to talk to me about the newest scientific discoveries or computer things - things I used to be at least somewhat interested in - I'm having a much harder time understanding the concepts and I usually have to repeat back to her the general idea of what she's saying in order to get it. And then when we're done, I forget about it. I figure it's just that my mind is so intensely focused on jock things that it doesn't absorb information that isn't pertinent towards my goals. This may or may not be a problem.

[xavious]

If I may butt in.

I feel that what may be happening is you previously had a lot of energy to spare that went into making your brain think and expand knowledge. Now you have a more physically focused mind and less time and energy to waste and your body can't afford to use energy on less physically productive things.

I think in the past you saw your body as a tool for your brain to use, but now you're so focused on your body that it sees your brain as a tool, and one that it doesn't need to use to the same capacity as before.

On the topic as a whole, I'm really into corruption and bringing out the dangerous and darker aspects of humanity, and especially the more raw ones. I consider jocking as a prime aspect of this and one that both scares and attracts me.

I'm not saying it's completely right, but I cannot deny that dumbing a guy down, or at least seeing him respond, is a massive turn on. There's something about taking away a man's critical thinking and replacing it with raw masculinity that is so sensual. I didn't grow up in America, but I grew up absorbing a lot of American media so its culture fascinates me. I think it has some of the best representation of masculinity in jocks. It's very overt.

[slyfox]

[quote="xavious":bdec9/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i71]
I feel that what may be happening is you previously had a lot of energy to spare that went into making your brain think and expand knowledge. Now you have a more physically focused mind and less time and energy to waste and your body can't afford to use energy on less physically productive things.

I think in the past you saw your body as a tool for your brain to use, but now you're so focused on your body that it sees your brain as a tool, and one that it doesn't need to use to the same capacity as before.[/quote:bdec9/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i71]

Can't say I agree with you more! I definitely have been feeling like my brain is just a tool that I can use to make my body better, and so that thought process keeps me from using my brain for things that are irrelevant to my progress as a bodybuilder jock.

[quote="xavious":bdec9/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i71]On the topic as a whole, I'm really into corruption and bringing out the dangerous and darker aspects of humanity, and especially the more raw ones. I consider jocking as a prime aspect of this and one that both scares and attracts me.[/quote:bdec9/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i71]

Not gonna lie, I think corruption can be really hot too dude. I never thought of jockification as a form of corruption but it kind of makes sense. You're basically turning a thinking man into an almost totally physical beast!

[rigsby]

[quote="xavious"]I feel that what may be happening is you previously had a lot of energy to spare that went into making your brain think and expand knowledge. Now you have a more physically focused mind and less time and energy to waste and your body can't afford to use energy on less physically productive things.

I think in the past you saw your body as a tool for your brain to use, but now you're so focused on your body that it sees your brain as a tool, and one that it doesn't need to use to the same capacity as before.[/quote]
If your theory is correct - and it sounds reasonable, at least - it would make the most sense to have a balance of energy between your brain and your body, instead of developing hyper strength in one, only to make the other one weak.

As far as the corruption and dumbing down go, I always thought it came from a revenge fantasy. The tist was bullied by jocks in school, so now he lives out his revenge by transforming other guys into his very own dumb jock slaves. If the slaves are willing to do that, okay, it's their minds. It's just not my thing.

[aviant]

Obsession in one field usually quenches interests in other topics. It's not something new or unheard of.

[rugbyjockca]

It used to bother me, but it doesn't so much anymore. It's funny because I started this thread, but most of the time I can't be bothered to respond to any of the points people are making. In the HUGE scheme of things, does it really matter if one sentient brain on a planet with billions of sentient brains is thinking about philosophy or muscle and sex?

But also, I think there's a bit of an adjustment of scope...part of my goal to be a jock will be as a personal trainer and I'm hoping I can help people to lead healthier, happier lives. For all of my non-muscle qualities, all I ever got was a series of unsatisfying customer service jobs where I basically just helped rich people get richer. In some ways I feel like muscle and perversion (because I'm well on my way to being Major Pixel's muscle slut) is almost a higher calling, because it avoids the illusion that I'm particularly special, and it gives me freedom to explore a side of me that our society might frown on.

But that's enough talk from me, I think I'm gonna get some breakfast and go work out.

[slyfox]

[quote="rugbyjockca"]It used to bother me, but it doesn't so much anymore. It's funny because I started this thread, but most of the time I can't be bothered to respond to any of the points people are making. In the HUGE scheme of things, does it really matter if one sentient brain on a planet with billions of sentient brains is thinking about philosophy or muscle and sex?

But also, I think there's a bit of an adjustment of scope...part of my goal to be a jock will be as a personal trainer and I'm hoping I can help people to lead healthier, happier lives. For all of my non-muscle qualities, all I ever got was a series of unsatisfying customer service jobs where I basically just helped rich people get richer. In some ways I feel like muscle and perversion (because I'm well on my way to being Major Pixel's muscle slut) is almost a higher calling, because it avoids the illusion that I'm particularly special, and it gives me freedom to explore a side of me that our society might frown on.

But that's enough talk from me, I think I'm gonna get some breakfast and go work out.[/quote]

Hey dude, you know what makes you particularly special? You put a lot of time and effort into doing something that the vast majority of people do not do. You're dedicated to becoming the person you want to be, and you're sacrificing your time, money, blood, sweat, and tears into making that happen. Very few people have the guts and the drive to become muscle freaks. You have the drive, and you do the work, so cherish that and know it makes you better. Better than all those lazy fucks out there who want the same thing as you do but don't have the balls to do the work to get there.

[BodyBM]

[quote="slyfox"]Hey dude, you know what makes you particularly special? You put a lot of time and effort into doing something that the vast majority of people do not do. You're dedicated to becoming the person you want to be, and you're sacrificing your time, money, blood, sweat, and tears into making that happen. Very few people have the guts and the drive to become muscle freaks. You have the drive, and you do the work, so cherish that and know it makes you better. Better than all those lazy fucks out there who want the same thing as you do but don't have the balls to do the work to get there.[/quote]
I quite agree, you explained perfectly why we all muscle freaks special, so no doubt you are special too rugbyjockja.

[rugbyjockca]

Shucks guys, we're all a bunch a big ol' softies. :)

[BodyBM]

[quote="rugbyjockca"]Shucks guys, we're all a bunch a big ol' softies. :)[/quote]
Soo true! :D
I think sometimes we just need some "soft" mental stimulation from each others to feel better, and sometimes just a big ballbusting kick to our asses to be tougher.

[xavious]

I will admit that my own fantasies tend to be rather dark. I tend to fantasise about guys, real or not, becoming very raw and often rather negative stereotypes with attractive aspects.

It's sort of extreme masculinsation in a sense. I will confess to enjoying having control over the proceedings.

I do tend to like seeing a man transformed from one thing into another, or at least aspects of him. Sometimes I like that the littlest things can cause the biggest changes.

Nice but awkward nerd to sexy jerkass jock is just a really good classic. I'm actually surprised myself with how much I've enjoyed variations on that theme, even ones I ought to find detestable, especially certain redneck ones I've played around with with certain guys.

I'm certainly no saint; I'm pretty evil to be honest. One of the sexiest things i like to see is a guy grab his head as he feels his brains shrink away... 8O

[salmonella]

"Nice but awkward nerd to sexy jerkass jock is just a really good classic. I'm actually surprised myself with how much I've enjoyed variations on that theme, even on redneckes I ought to find detestable, especially certain redneck ones I've played around with with certain guys."

OK, I'll bite.

Have you converted a nerd into a redneck? Was it something the subject wanted or was it something you engineered? Did the subject have a clear idea of what he was to become? Were there a lot of potentially disruptive changes put in place (I'm wondering about changes in appearance, sexuality, job, habits like drinking smoking, or personality/identity.) Were the changes permanent? Did the subject/victim like or accept the changes? For that matter, when all was said and done, was the subject/victim aware of the changes? What eventually happened to the subject/victim after the, umm--intervention--was over?

Just asking.

Frankly, I suspect many guys, not all of them nerds, would welcome undergoing a process like this. "A man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a hypno for?"

[xavious]

[quote="salmonella":cf7/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i3552]OK, I'll bite.[/quote:cf7/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i3552]
Why do you say "OK, I'll bite." as though I were flame-baiting? :(

[quote:cf7/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i3552]Have you converted a nerd into a redneck? Was it something the subject wanted or was it something you engineered? Did the subject have a clear idea of what he was to become? Were there a lot of potentially disruptive changes put in place (I'm wondering about changes in appearance, sexuality, job, habits like drinking smoking, or personality/identity.) Were the changes permanent? Did the subject/victim like or accept the changes? For that matter, when all was said and done, was the subject/victim aware of the changes? What eventually happened to the subject/victim after the, umm--intervention--was over?[/quote:cf7/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i3552]
I don't know if I'd say they were completely nerds to begin with, but I'd argue that there were some strong nerdish elements for them to have found me how they did and desire to be changed from what they were into this. At the very least, they wanted these elements brought out and strengthened.

I discussed with the subjects their specific desires and tried out some creative ideas and things I liked. Both seemed to enjoy the aspects I touched on. I also discovered some new fun, but sometimes dark, aspects to these tfs.

Disruptive changes were largely desired, I think, or accepted as part of the change they desired.

I don't really know how permanent the changes have been so far.

I like the subject to be aware because it's fun to see how they feel and what they liked/disliked. What's attractive to me is getting and seeing feedback.

That's also an aspect of corruption; knowing something isn't "right" and having to deal with it, and maybe enjoying it.

They continued their lives, hopefully feeling all the better about themselves and the experience.

[quote:cf7/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i3552]Frankly, I suspect many guys, not all of them nerds, would welcome undergoing a process like this.[/quote:cf7/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i3552]
How so? I'm curious what your thoughts are regarding this.

[salmonella]

Why do you say "OK, I'll bite." as though I were flame-baiting? :(


Sorry for any offense--I didn't mean to give any offense--I can only apologize for whatever offense i may have given.



[quote]Frankly, I suspect many guys, not all of them nerds, would welcome undergoing a process like this.[/quote]
How so? I'm curious what your thoughts are regarding this.[/quote]


Based on twenty-five years of psychotherapy with teenage and adult males I think many well educated high achieving college students and white-collar professional types wish they were more like the Marlboro Man, Waylon Jennings and Rambo than Caspar Milquetoast, possibly because they think that Waylon Jennings, Rambo and the Marlboro Man are having more fun and living a more glamorous life than they. Whether this is accurate or not is almost irrelevant--Consider the number of middle-aged professional types getting tattooed sleeves, buying Harleys or Corvettes, or taking up smoking cigars and Skoal-dipping. I believe it was Thoreau who said, "Most men live lives of quiet desperation."

Be all that as it may, the hints you have shared with us are intriguing and fascinating. If you have succeeded in respectively converting two cousins of Caspar Milquetoast into two cousins of the Marlboro Man, that's a pretty neat thing in itself, and I would hope you would share the details with us. This is a fascinating tale, and I think the story of how you did it, what you started with, and what the result was, all deserves to be told.

After all, there are a number of folks here who are interested in doing that (or something close to it) to themselves and I suspect we all would be interested in how it's done, as well as congratulating you on the achievement.

And it's going to be one hell of a tale.

Best wishes.

SALMONELLA

[outkast1728]

??? bro, who da fuq is milk and toast?

[xavious]

Edit: Nevermind.

[salmonella]

Thank you for clarifying this. Since I'm the one who asked for more information, it would be wrong for me to criticize you, so I won't. I will say however that I had hoped that something might be learned from what I hoped were your efforts to convert some guy to stereotypical hypermasculine mildly badass mesomorphic jockista status. Since such is not the case, it'll be necessary to look elsewhere for advice or a practical methodology.

And forgive me for saying this--I'm biting my tongue even as I type (No, I don't type with my tongue, it's just a figure of speech)--but watch out for the "corruption," as you put it. Even with the little you have revealed, It sounds like the dark side of the force. Taken further, maybe not much further than you seem to have taken matters now, the "corruption" may destroy you, never mind about the subject.

Courage, my friend, and good luck.

[xavious]

I think I'll just keep stuff to myself in future.

[rubbapig]

[quote="xavious":be8e/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i122]I think I'll just keep stuff to myself in future.[/quote:be8e/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i122]

Dude.. that wud be a shame as I for one have bin injoyin and am interested in wot uve bin sayin.

Aside from also bein well into the idea of bein 'corrupted'.. bein sumwot passive in nature I find wot pepole are callin the uglier sides of bein a jock.. aggression, arrogance, stupidity and to sum degree even intolerance very appealin like. As a teenager I got a bit of a reputation for speakin wivout finking like, and in tryin to correct that fink ive gone to far the otha way. And spoze im now wishin was a bit more like used to be.

As yer kan prob tell from me tipin, i have gone sum way to dummin meself down, only was not quite stupid enuf to ignore pepoles 'adivse' to stop. And havin thort bout if for a cuple of munfs kan see that me situation wud allow that to be takun a bit futha and wanna do so.

Am also interested in exploring sum of the darker emotions.. anger and hate.. fings that i repress. Im not shur wher am goin wiv that yet, but weneva have sed this to anywun its usually frowned upon and considered 'bad' .. so is nice to reed stuff from sumwun who is open to exploring such themes.

.. so dude.. this thred is for talkin bout the so called negative aspects of bein a jock, please don't be put off doin so by wun or two pepole who mite not like wot your into.

And fanks for wot uve shared to date dude!

[xavious]

I think I'm just sick at this point for being made to feel weird and chastised on sites where the theme is fucked up shit, more so on a site called "Warp My Mind".

I keep my mouth shut and don't lay it on thick when I see others talking about fetishes/aspects that don't interest me. As long as all involved know what they are getting themselves into I typically don't care; everyone is an adult capable of being responsible for their own autonomy.

In jock terms: fuck that noise.