How Many Here Believe in UFO's?

by **drydreamer** » July 15th, 2005, 6:35 am

Do you know what the SECOND most viewed and discussed topic on the internet is behind SEX? It's UFO's! Yes, there are almost as many people who believe that UFO's are space ships as there are who enjoy porno! 8O Can you believe that?! It's hard for me to grasp, because I have been TRYING to believe in UFO's for most of my life, but still can't see much concrete evidence for them. Wouldn't it be great if UFO's really WERE space ships from another planet or dimension?! Just think of the new frontiers that would be opened up for us to pollute. But if they ARE real, why are the space aliens hiding from us out there in Area 51? They traversed many light years of space to come here - and what for? Their technology is far in advance of ours, so why are they afraid of us? Why don't they just go on TV and announce that they're gonna kick lots of ass and take names later? And if they are slowly leaking little tidbits of alien technology to our government (as is alleged) where are the results of this? I don't see any anti-gravity vehicles floating around my neighborhood. Why are we still risking the lives of our astronauts in those antiquated space shuttles when the aliens can take them up there to the space station in five minutes? Why are we even continuing to build the International Space Station? It doesn't make much sense to me. So what do you guys think about this? Or would you rather talk about sex? :lol: drydreamer

by **missypuss** » July 15th, 2005, 7:46 am

I dont think there are Aliens so much Drydreamer as forms of alternate worlds which we cant see because we are not equipped enough to see them ... I think the space station , and your governments zealousattitude to getting you guys up there, boils down to two things.. A/ Were fucking up the planet and perhaps they know more than we do about how long its got before it shakes us all off like the pesky parasites we are and B/ Doesnt your president want to Rule the world??? and by that he would want a piece of space aswell?? :wink:

by **drydreamer** » July 15th, 2005, 9:02 am

My dear Missypuss, I am proud to announce that I DID NOT vote for my sorry president! I think he wishes he could rule the world, but he has to settle for heaping more fame (or infamy) or the Bush family legacy. Usually I don't really care about politics that much, but I was actually very angry when I learned that he had once again managed to barely win the presidency! :evil: He is very full of himself, and I am very embarrassed to have such a president over my country. Furthermore, it is my contention that the US government intelligence agencies are actually too INEPT to hide space aliens from the public. They couldn't hide Monica Lewinsky, so how are they going to hide ET? I think there never were any space aliens or space ships, and the UFO enthusiasts need to get a life or try having more sex. I'm not sure I understand what you said about alternate beings, so maybe you would be nice enough to explain further. If it has to do with alternate universes, I do understand that concept. drydreamer

by **makidas** » July 15th, 2005, 9:20 am

It has been said, and I quote, "The aliens are already among us, they've lived among us for years disguised as Latin-Americans," no shit. A good friend of mine strongly believes that they will return in 2012, the last time they visited was around the time of the Sumerians in present day Iraq. He also believes that alot of people will die, similar to what happened to Sumer (the civilization seems to have just one day dropped off the face of the world as advanced a society as it was). They will come for our gold supposedly because they fucked up their atmosphere and gold is the secret to repairing it. Then again that sort of make sense because we have valued gold for as long as history allows us to recall, yet I can't find any reason why we value gold so highly. I don't know how much of what I just typed I actually believe, although some of it is plausible, but I've had some interesting dreams about the events of 2012, maybe I'll post them later.

by **missypuss** » July 15th, 2005, 10:05 am

My Dear Drydreamer!! Forgive me if u thought I was suggesting u voted for or indeed even liked your president: ( I most certainly was not even thinking about that when I responded to your post) You have Bush & we have Blair... Care to swap...lol!! Yes alternate realities is what I meant :Have you read Phillip Pullmans "Subtle Knife" Trilogy... I guess that gives you kind of an idea of where I am (alternatively) coming from. I have also just (tried) to read and digest "the Universe in a Nutshell" and kinda liked the idea of Branes .... or at least as much of them as I could understand???? I agree that if there were Aliens then wed have heard by now..!! I still stand by the commment that the reason everyones so eager to get into space is cos they know far more about how quickly , our planet as we know it is dying, and they want to be able to put all the most (Yawn) "Powerful people" up there... :?: when it inevitably happens!!! :twisted:

by **VeryGnawty** » July 15th, 2005, 10:13 am

If by "UFO" you mean "Unidentified Flying Object" then I think everyone believes in those. After all, you'd be foolish not to. Ever seen something in the sky and you're not sure what it was? Yeah.

If by "UFO" you mean "alien spacecraft" then I'd have to say that I doubt many people have actually seen one. I couldn't even begin to imagine why an alien would want to visit the planet earth in the first place. But if they did, I doubt they'd let themselves be seen by some silly humans

by **drydreamer** » July 15th, 2005, 10:28 am

I'm glad to see that you are taking the time to actually read books about the alternate world theory, Missypuss. So far, my reading on the subject has only been science fiction, but I'll look for Pullman's trilogy. That's probably fiction too, isn't it. Alternate worlds and UFO's are both the same type of subject: If you believe it, you see evidence; and if you don't believe it, you don't see any evidence. But of course, that kind of evidence is completely subjective; and I'm looking for OBJECTIVE proof. I often tell a little joke to my friends who are non-believers which goes: Making jokes about space aliens is so much fun because they never show up at my door to complain! And I think it's interesting that the people who are voting YES in my poll are not posting any comments. drydreamer

by **loadedkaos** » July 15th, 2005, 11:29 am

If you have a mind towards the occult many people think that they are modern day ferries playing tricks on us, which is why there is no concrete evidence yet. This seems plossible because both myths have similarites. i.e. abducting people, they come from different worlds, fey and human mating translates to alien and human mating.
There's one things that I think is interesting about abduction victims and that is they are mostly left handed. I'm not sure what that means to any one else but don't people who are left handed use the more creative side of their brain. Maybe I'm wrong. But I think aliens and the really weird ufos come from a part of our imagination that is completely autonomous of our own free will. Like a concept that we can't imaginatively control because that would betray the symbology of the concept in the brain. This is what I think happens to people when they astral project by the way. They go to a part of their imagination where they can't control the script of events and this world is where I think ets and ufos come from.

by **drydreamer** » July 15th, 2005, 12:10 pm

Thanks for the interesting comments, loadedkaos. It may be that the whole UFO phenomenon is completely in the heads of the people who think they have made contact. There may even be a correlation between the religious zealots who have stigmata on their hands and feet, and the UFO abductees who have tiny little implants in various parts of their bodies. Perhaps they actually do this damage to their own bodies while in an altered state of consciousness! In any case, I still don't believe there are any genuine space aliens or alien space ships here on this planet; and as someone else pointed out, why would they bother visiting here anyway? We are probably a very backward society compared to those on other planets. And by the way, I want to make one thing clear. I absolutely DO believe there are intelligent people on other planets; but I just don't believe they have come to visit us. Astronomers believe that there are AT LEAST 10,000,000 planets LIKE EARTH that could sustain life as we know it in this galaxy alone! And one thing we have learned scientifically is that wherever life CAN exist, it DOES exist! There are absolutely other people out there in intergalactic space somewhere! The hard evidence will come when we can finally go out there and find them. drydreamer

by **sandy82** » July 15th, 2005, 1:23 pm

Unidentified Flying Objects

Drydreamer, I have seen a number of these recently, either in a trance or a dream. They looked very real, and they had markings and logos that looked strangely familiar. Could this be species-ist memory?

I remember several vividly. One had a blue circle on its tail. Another had a red stripe down the side. A third had a half-bronze/half-gold face. A fourth had full-length navy and light blue lines. One, noted below, behaved very strangely.*

Here's what I saw in my mind's eye: PanAm, TWA, National, Eastern, Allegheny, Mohawk, Air Florida, PeoplExpress, Trans-Texas, Sabena, SwissAir, BEA, BOAC, and *Piedmont--which landed every hundred yards or so, as if on a schedule, and beings exited and entered.

Identified Bicycling Objects

At midday on a Wednesday last month, the Capitol and White House were evacuated as DC went to red alert. While an unknown plane headed toward Washington, the IBO was pedaling, blissfully unaware, down a suburban nature trail with a high school friend. (Since the IBO is not ordained, we can assume that "high school" means "friend from" and not "friend in.") His minders left him in ignorance, a technique with which they have much experience. He bicycled along for at least an hour and 20 minutes. The IBO reportedly makes $400,000 per year, plus expenses and...er...tips. Even on Wednesdays.

The same IBO was spotted in Scotland last week, where a collision sent a Scottish policeman to the hospital. The IBO is said to have hit the head rather hard, but only needed some band-aids on the knuckles. .... Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks. :wink:

by **missypuss** » July 15th, 2005, 2:30 pm

Sandy sometimes when I read some of the stuff posted by other people to what is, or starts out to be a perfectly reasonable debate .. I end up totally confused and also questioning wether Im still looking at the same topic ?? Drydreamer you can go & look up Pullmans "Subtle Knife Trilogy" but actually thinking of the controversy "Theology" brings to these forums I wonder if the books are something I should have admitted to reading.. He was denounced as a heretic and an anti religious scientist when the books first got on the b.sellers list over in UK ..Especially as they are aimed at 12yrs old and upwards.. Still the whole concept appealed to me of being able to slice through time from one place to the next.. Pullman based his ideas on Quantum Physics..... Sorry Im just a girl who likes to excercise her brain!! Why would it please you that I looked at books?? !! :? Dont girls do this where you come from?? :wink:

by **missypuss** » July 15th, 2005, 2:34 pm

Adendum... Loaded K .. I am left handed!!!! Whatever you mean by that slightly diverse comment ??

by **sandy82** » July 15th, 2005, 3:32 pm

LOL, missypus, sometimes your confusion is contagious. :) Especially on a weekend evening after 9:30 PM, there in the UK. That's about the time that the early spirits have already come out. :wink:

by **Jack** » July 15th, 2005, 3:59 pm

Quoting from Chariots of the Gods? by Erich von Daniken puslished in February 1970 by Putnam.

The late Willy Ley, well-known scientific writer, and friend of Wernher von Braun, told me in New York: "The estimated number of stars in our Milky Way alone amounts to 30 billion. The assumption that our Milky Way contains at least 16 billion planetary systems is considered admissible by present-day astronomers. If we now try to reduce the figures in question as much as possible and assume that the distances between planetary systems are so regulated that only one case in a hundred does a planet orbit in the ecosphere of its own sun, that still leaves 180 million planets capable of supporting life. If we further assume that only one planet in a hundred that might support life actually does so, we should still have the figure of 1.8 million planets with life. Let us further suppose that out of every hundred planets with life there is one on which creatures with the same level of intelligence as homo sapiens live. Then even this last supposition gives our Milky Way the vast number of 18,000 inhabited planets."

We can go even further and speculate that if only 1 percent of thesee 18,000 planets were actually inhabited, there would still be 180 left!

by **gork151** » July 15th, 2005, 5:04 pm

all unidentifed flying object means is that it cant be identified could be a kite. to assume all unidentified objects are aliens may be a stretch. but maybe some are that can't be identified might be form some other civilization in the middle of the earth - would that make them aliens? and some could be from other planets. i saw some up close and personal when i was a fire look out up on mt rainier..4 of them at each quadrant and me in middle of knight by myself andd 15 miles out by trail. the even scrambled jets from mc cord air base in tacoma.. that'll fuck with a young mind.

by **sandy82** » July 15th, 2005, 6:43 pm

gork151, I was wondering when you served as a fire lookout on Mt. Rainier. Perhaps at some time between, say, 1976 and 1991? This time period could have been illustrative, but not dispositive.

As you know, Jimmy Carter fostered two new weapons systems for the U.S.

First, the automated Bible launcher. :wink:

Second, the B-1 stealth bomber. The latter was such a close-hold for years that even USAF fighter pilots outside the favored unit knew nothing about them. (As the years passed, "nothing" went from "absolutely nothing" to "nothing for certain.") How better to test a weapons system than to really simulate an adversary situation. Of course, with a fail-safe emergency notification system if an immediate stand-down became necessary.

With that in mind and depending on the years involved, I can well imagine a genuine scramble from McCord against nearly invisible planes that might have taken off from Nellis.

Et voilà! UFOs. Literally.

For years, for the IvorySoap sector of the American public (99 and 44/100ths percent) the B-1 was an unidentified flying object.

Alas, however, no little green men. Except, perhaps, for the color of the flight suits. Hmmmm.
.

by **drydreamer** » July 15th, 2005, 7:20 pm

For all those who have contributed to this discussion thread, my reference to UFO's was meant as UFO's that are alleged to be spacecraft from another planet. Obviously there are UFO's that are misunderstood natural or man-made phenomena. I was not referring to any of these; and anyone who has seen the vast number of discussions about UFO's that are presently continuing on the internet would know that the term "UFO" almost always refers to alleged spacecraft from other planets or dimensions.

For Missypuss, I hereby present the following disclaimer: I DO NOT think it is at all strange for a woman to read books. My comment only referred to reading books about ALTERNATE REALITIES! Especially since you insinuated that you had actually read SCIENTIFIC books about that subject! I'm very impressed with you! Your IQ is very respectable, and I am humbled that you spent hours of your free time reading a scientific exposition on such an obscure subject! That's because I would consider such a concept SO fanciful that I would normally only read about it in fictional works. I'm also proud of the human race that there is someone out there who is taking it that seriously! Please accept my humble apologies, Missypuss, for having given you the impression that I might question your intelligence. You are welcome to spank me very hard (and I sincerely hope you find a way!) drydreamer

by **sandy82** » July 15th, 2005, 8:28 pm

Drydreamer, you have been a great host for the discussion. It's rare to have someone do that. Much appreciated!

I have one logical nit to pick...not with you, but with the classification of UFOs into man-made or extraterrestrial. As you carefully used the word "alleged" twice, I'm sure that you already know what I mean. One can't classify the vehicle/object without knowing the proper classification...and not knowing the proper classification may lead to its identification as a UFO. And so the cat chases its tail.

Don't get me wrong: the cat is fun in its own right. I suspect that the classifications of unknown craft are made to the satisfaction and predilecton of the earthbound observer. Where one stands depends on where one sits. Personally, I couldn't distinguish butter from margarine, merely by looking at it from a distance.

Can you imagine the number of sightings of the B-1 written up as alien spacecraft between the mid-1970s and Gulf War I? Of course, the military said nothing and loved it...every such article helped protect the B-1 secret.

A quick note. Via PMs, missypus and I now understand each other. She realizes that my references to Bush on bicycle followed on her first post, referring to his desire to rule the Versiune.

Or did I mean...Universe? :wink:

Many thanks and congrats again! A great thread!

drydreamer wrote:For all those who have contributed to this discussion thread, my reference to UFO's was meant as UFO's that are alleged to be spacecraft from another planet. Obviously there are UFO's that are misunderstood natural or man-made phenomena. I was not referring to any of these; and anyone who has seen the vast number of discussions about UFO's that are presently continuing on the internet would know that the term "UFO" almost always refers to alleged spacecraft from other planets or dimensions.

by **drydreamer** » July 18th, 2005, 6:42 am

WOW! My poll is very lopsided in favor of those who believe that UFO's are from other planets or dimensions; and yet the YES people are not posting any comments! Come on you guys, why are you so shy to tell us your reasons? Have you actually seen some UFO's? If so, tell us about it. I've met people who have seen UFO's that were as big as a house, and I think they were either mistaken or they were articulating a dream or fantasy; but I did not make fun of them, and I won't make fun of you. It's a known fact that people often misinterpret what they see. drydreamer

by **missypuss** » July 18th, 2005, 10:04 am

Drydreamer. With reference to the spanking and not in any way connected to the UFO debate.. Do u prefer a hand or a paddle? :twisted:

by **drydreamer** » July 18th, 2005, 10:34 am

Missypuss! How delightful to hear from you again; especially with reference to dishing out corporal punishment! :D In this matter, I would much prefer the hand, because I know from experience that you cannot do it extremely hard that way without bruising your own hand; and I'm not into heavy pain anyway. But perhaps we should not digress from the UFO's in this direction any further without transferring our comments into personal messages. What do you think, Madame Missypuss? And surely there must be some other name you would like for me to address you by (privately, of course.) :lol: drydreamer

by **gurlbidesign** » August 1st, 2005, 5:30 am

In the very early 50s my mother worked in the aircraft industry. She was very familiar with all the latest planes being tested and flown at that time. While in the Mtns near Lake Tahoe Calif. she saw a silver disk rise up from behind a small hill next to the road and shoot away. It was unlike anything that we had in the air at the time. I believe.........

by **gork151** » August 2nd, 2005, 3:04 am

i was a fire lookout up on mt rainier on the west side right at tree level .. mt rose up right behind me and i was 15 or so miles in so no running out in middle of the night.. i was taking my last walk of night (out house) and saw a strange light in the air looked as if it were a revolving light of four colors - thought it was a heliocopter because it was pretty stationary.. went back to the lookout to listen to radio to see if it was a rescue or something - no action there so lined it up on my fire finder saw it was moving slowly against the grain as in stars going one way wind going another... and it was moving independantly... as night went on saw 3 others roughly at different points of compass....by then was in mild freak based on other things that had happened in park that summer.. radioed down said it was my job to report strange things and this was strangest any ideas... got calls all night long from buddies and others around the park telling me to switch brands - stay off the fermenting blue berries ect.. by then was in major freak mode as sliver of cold white heat came from other side of mt - the deserted side looked like classic pic of saucer -- that turned out to be the partial moon rising .. came out of look out the next day got crap from everyone till paper came out in evening the paper described it as the largest ufo sighting in area and said jets were scrambled at one point from nearest air base ( never saw them ) but was reported so became minior celb in park everyone wanted to know what i saw.. also reported lights of climbers on summit one time when no one was there ... then another time when i was little was in olympic mountains at a camp gound and about twenty people watched one of those shiny cigar shaped jobs -- both of these were pre b1 so no answer there .... i dont know what i saw in either case but hold a masters in science amoung other things and tried to find logical conclusion -- spock would have been proud.... but i saw what i saw and no good logical alternative....no reflection off of car window -- not a plane or heliocopter not a hot air balloon or garmet bag with candle .. supposedly mt rainier was site of first sighting( fun to use both words that sound the same in one sentence.

by **drydreamer** » August 2nd, 2005, 6:27 am

Thanks to the above three posters for sharing their experiences. I actually WANT to believe, but my mind is too scientific. I especially appreciate gork151 admitting that he did not really know what he saw. Perhaps that is what everyone should say after one of these sightings. Just admit you don't really know, rather than jumping to wild conclusions. I took an adult education class a few years ago, and the instructor told us he believed that UFO's were spaceships. He said that one time when he was in the Air Force, he was on a AF plane full of people and a UFO the size of a house came close by and paced the plane for some distance. He said everyone saw it, and crowded next to the windows to take in the sight. The UFO finally zoomed away at incredible speed, and when the plane landed, an Air Force general gathered them all together and ordered them not to say anything to the press. He felt it was safe to talk now because he wasn't in the Air Force anymore. The reason I don't believe this, is because he had an ulterior motive for impressing us with this sighting. The class was about paranormal phenomena. Also, I thought it was a bit TOO "hollywood." And of course, it was hear-say evidence. I've never seen any UFO's myself. Maybe if I do, I'll then be convinced. drydreamer

by **gork151** » August 2nd, 2005, 11:28 am

by the way was a lookout /ranger on rainier in the late 60s.. that was what i started to say in last post but never got around to it...

by **nicosali** » September 22nd, 2005, 1:37 pm

yes I believe in aliens

by **missypuss** » September 22nd, 2005, 1:43 pm

hmmmmn.......

by **davelowe1977** » September 23rd, 2005, 12:09 pm

nicosali wrote:yes I believe in aliens

For those interested in a scientific and statistical analysis of whether extra-terrestrial life exists, I can recommend a book by Amir Aczel entitled "Probability 1" (1998 - Harcourt Brace & Co.) ISBN 0-349-11247-9

As the title suggests, the author concludes that given what we know about the size and age of the universe, the probability of life existing on another planet is 100%.

Earlier parts of the book discuss the possible reasons why contact has never been made such as time frames, distances and the necessary technologies.

Whether contact has been made and kept secret, I will leave to the conspiracy theorists.

Today's maths teaser: 23 people are in a room, what is the probability that at least two will share the same birthday? (day & month NOT year)

Answers on a postcard.

by **missypuss** » September 23rd, 2005, 1:25 pm

Aww nicosali.. u edited your post..... but still i say hmmmmn.......

by **sandy82** » September 25th, 2005, 12:37 pm

missypuss wrote:Aww nicosali.. u edited your post..... but still i say hmmmmn.......

nicosali wrote:yes I believe in aliens

Speaking generally, one has to be speak and write precisely--or else one may be seen as saying more or less than one intended.

I use as an example here the maths problem posed by davelowe. I am not criticizing dave, nor am I taking vehement exception to his problem...which is a very interesting one. I started noticing the seeming ambiguities while working with the puzzle. I did not notice them at first glance.

Here's what Dave says:

<<Today's maths teaser: 23 people are in a room, what is the probability that at least two will share the same birthday? (day & month NOT year) >>

The longer I look at the language, the less clear it becomes. For instance, I don't think Dave meant to include actual months in the year he has in mind. Are we to figure September as 30/31 of October? I think he meant year as composed of a specific number of days (which for non-mathematical purposes are divided into months and days/dates ranging from 1-28, 1-29, 1-30, 1-31). His real message, I think, is that he did not mean years in the sense of 1987 (the year in or before which all site users claim they were born).

Second example. "same birthday". Do we assume that "at least two" means the same thing as "two or more"? Does Dave mean that two or more people will share the same single date--for example 32/365, which is February 1. Or does Dave mean that two or more people qualify if they share the same birthday, and two other people share the same birthday, between the two of them....but on a different date? After all, if there can't be more than one "same" date, then how do we determine which is the more correct of two equally valid dates? Two people may be born on February 1, and two people may be born on September 15. If so, then how can one of these dates be better than the other? If they are equally qualifying, there can be as many qualifying dates as there are (at least) pairs of people to fill them. In the case of 23 people that would be 10 days with a pair of birthdays, and an 11th day with a ménage à trois.

Is Dave talking about a 365-day year, a <365.25-day year, a leap year?

Again, no criticism of Dave. I use his maths example because it is easy to see from this post. It is on page two, toward the end.

My general point is that things mean what you say...not necessarily what you intended. Alternatively, they may say exactly what you intended, and then other people leap to the wrong conclusions.

I agree with Nicosali's post. He believes in aliens. So do I. Use the Google search engine and type in "immigration" and "aliens", or "illegal" and "aliens". The airports in New York, London, Buenos Aires, and Tokyo are filled with them every day. Claridge's in London would go out of business if the UK admitted no aliens.

I remember generally what Nicosali's first post said. I would have disagreed with that. But he has edited his own language...nothing wrong with doing so....

I think that in his post (edited one time) Nicosali has said exactly what he meant to say, and not a single word more than that.
.

by **missypuss** » September 25th, 2005, 2:16 pm

And so i am to take it Sandy that you class the movement of citizens of this planet ,
Of which we are all a resident..
As aliens?
Moving from one place to another..
I beg to differ ,
The only reason that we class other human beings as aliens is because society and our governments and religion tell us we are not equal.
They tell us we are all different and hence the term "illegal aliens"
By the way I know nothing of Claridges never having spent any time in london except when on a school trip many years ago.
But I take it from the comment you believe this is where many of the so called "aliens" end up working.
I beg to differ . Im sure a great many more (especially of the female variety) can be found working in soho.
Where thet have been taken or ended up because our society refuses to recognise them as human beings..
Post Edited 0 Times..
Speak it as you think it,And damn the consequences..xxx :twisted:

by **sandy82** » September 26th, 2005, 12:56 pm

.
Missypuss, your sense of humor is always a pleasure. The dry comments. The allusions. The urbanity.

I am especially pleased, since I had not written to you. But that's not a problem. Herewith a reply.

1.

missypuss wrote: And so i am to take it Sandy that you class the movement of citizens of this planet ,
Of which we are all a resident..
As aliens?

I don't classify a movement as aliens. Also, it's extraordinary that when you were a teenager, nowhere was the word "citizen" to be seen in a UK passport. You and everyone else in the UK were not considered "citizens" of any country....but now you consider yourself a "citizen of this planet."

A big change.

Let's start off with my point. Nicosali believes in aliens. I believe in aliens. He did not qualify the term in his amended post, and I don't either.

For language to perform a useful function, there need to be shared meanings and shared definitions.

--The very first noun definition for "alien" in Webster's 2001 Unabridged Dictionary is "a resident born in or belonging to another country who has not acquired citizenship by naturalization (distinguished from citizen)."
--The second definition is "a foreigner."
--The third definition is "a person who has been estranged or excluded."
--The fourth and last definition is "a creature from outer space; extraterrestrial."

As for shared meanings in case you don't have a dictionary, I suggested to you a source that I know you have available at home. Google. I further suggested that you include words that would leave out the use of aliens as space creatures. My point (which I could have made clearer) was to see whether the word "aliens" is currently used to refer to non-citizens of the country in which they are located. I suggested two pairs, for a Google search. Illegal and aliens. Immigration and aliens.

Note that I did not use the word "immigration" or "illegal" in my own narrative. I offered them to narrow the focus of the search. In much the same way, if you were looking for an author named Swift, I would suggest including "Jonathan."

You didn't mention in your post that you had performed a Google search. Well, it was 9:18 pm BST on a Sunday at the time.

immigration + aliens----> 2,700,000 hits
illegal + aliens-----------> 3,610,000 hits

The point of the search, I stress again, was to see whether the word "aliens" is in common usage for non-citizen humans present in another country. My conclusion: it is.

2.

missypuss wrote: Moving from one place to another..

I don't understand how this phrase adds to or detracts from what else you're saying.

3.

missypuss wrote: I beg to differ ,

You and Chymos exchanged definitions in public posts recently on the meanings of D/s and M/s. If the comments hadn't been made in public posts, I would not mention them here. As I recall, he corrected you.

My point is tangentially related to his, but it is somewhat different. I am not saying your comment is wrong. I am saying that it is irrelevant. You and I are in no sort of relationship at all. Therefore, you have no need to beg. If you differ, just say that you differ. But if you feel a need to beg, go ahead.

4.

missypuss wrote: The only reason that we class other human beings as aliens is because society and our governments and religion tell us we are not equal.

Your opinion is as good or as bad as most. I thought an additional, widely-stated reason was to protect your job. Or to prevent an already slow system of motorways from coming to a standstill. Lots of people would move to the UK very quickly, if given the chance.

To me, there is nothing inherently derogatory about the word "alien". When Queen Elizabeth has visited this country, she has been classified as an alien. When President Clinton visited the UK, he was classified as an alien.

5.

missypuss wrote: They tell us we are all different and hence the term "illegal aliens"

No, Missypuss. The term "illegal alien" has to do with immigration status. It has nothing to do with wealth, race, color, creed, handicaps, etc. Let's suppose a pair of identical twins. Rich, photogenic, well-educated. Chilean nationals in the UK. One has overstayed his visa. The other's visa is still valid. The first is an "illegal alien." The second is a "legal alien."

6.

missypuss wrote:
By the way I know nothing of Claridges never having spent any time in london except when on a school trip many years ago.

I didn't know about your school trip. I didn't know how many times you've been in London. I understand from the preceding sentence that you've been in London only once, on a school trip many years ago. I expected that you would know the name of Claridge's, just as many people know the name of Harrod's or Fortnum & Mason.

I do hope, however, that you know about more places than those you have visited personally.

7.

missypuss wrote:
But I take it from the comment you believe this is where many of the so called "aliens" end up working.

No, Missypuss. You have it exactly backwards.

I suspect that most of the registered guests at Claridge's are non-British, with only temporary permission to be in the United Kingdom (which does not give the opportunity to work): American aliens, Kuwaiti aliens, Japanese aliens, et al. Unless traveling on a generous expense account, no self-respecting Briton would stay at Claridge's. To borrow a phrase from a former prime minister, where's the value for money?

In contrast, I would expect that virtually every employee at Claridge's is a British national or a holder of a valid UK work permit. There's a good reason. A hotel like Claridge's doesn't want bad publicity, and it doesn't want to pay fines to either the Labour Ministry or the Home Office for hiring those without authorization to work in the UK.

8.

missypuss wrote:I beg to differ.

No need to beg. See above.

9.

missypuss wrote:
Im sure a great many more (especially of the female variety) can be found working in soho.
Where thet have been taken or ended up because our society refuses to recognise them as human beings..

Your knowledge of Soho seems quite broad, especially since you've been in London only once, long ago, on a school trip.

10.

missypuss wrote:Post Edited 0 Times..

Spontaneity is a spice of life.

11.

missypuss wrote:
Speak it as you think it,

Good advice for all. If I were you in this case, however, I would plead old and arthritic fingers.

12.

missypuss wrote: And damn the consequences..xxx :twisted:

What consequences? You met my every expectation. :)
.

by **missypuss** » September 27th, 2005, 12:38 am

As usual Sandy, your compliments to my contribution to this topic amuse me, on many levels..
The fact that your last post wasnt directed at me is surely neither here nor there as I always thought the point of the Forums,was to allow people to speak their minds... (In my case) :twisted: Or as in your case ,do extensive research on a topic before putting a very long and confusing point across.. :wink:
Again your comments on "not knowing wether I own a dictionary" are not worth responding to..
As are your comments on "old and arthritic fingers" Miow......hiss..
And as to your point about me allowing someone to point out that I had made a mistake (Chymos) and my relationship to him.Yes I allowed him to point out that I had made a mistake;you allude to my "relationship" as if that is the reason.No Sandy, the reason was simpler than that. He said something which I wanted clarification of the terminology of.. I asked if it meant a or b and was wrong on both points..I stood corrected
A clear case of a simple question recieving a simple answer Sandy..
Something which it appears you have difficulty getting to grips with at times....
BTW How old are you?....

by **sandy82** » September 27th, 2005, 12:28 pm

missypuss wrote:As usual Sandy, your compliments to my contribution to this topic amuse me, on many levels..
The fact that your last post wasnt directed at me is surely neither here nor there as I always thought the point of the Forums,was to allow people to speak their minds... (In my case) :twisted: Or as in your case ,do extensive research on a topic before putting a very long and confusing point across.. :wink:
Again your comments on "not knowing wether I own a dictionary" are not worth responding to..
As are your comments on "old and arthritic fingers" Miow......hiss..
And as to your point about me allowing someone to point out that I had made a mistake (Chymos) and my relationship to him.Yes I allowed him to point out that I had made a mistake;you allude to my "relationship" as if that is the reason.No Sandy, the reason was simpler than that. He said something which I wanted clarification of the terminology of.. I asked if it meant a or b and was wrong on both points..I stood corrected
A clear case of a simple question recieving a simple answer Sandy..
Something which it appears you have difficulty getting to grips with at times....
BTW How old are you?....

Missypuss, I see a need to be direct on occasion, as an aid to your comprehension. You seem to read poorly and to understand poorly. I didn't say that you and Chymos had a relationship. I said that he corrected you. The only time a "relationship" was mentioned was when I said you and I don't have one. Never did. Never will. Read carefully. Think precisely.

I made no long and confusing point. My point was simple: aliens are non-citizens. If you found that concept to be complicated, you may have cause for concern.

I did no research. I looked up a word in the dictionary. I made two Google queries.

You don't stay focused. You seem to have abandoned your claim that...aliens are unequal because religion says so, etc., etc. Those were vehemently held views, two days ago.

I am glad to see that your sense of humor is still there. The following line is a funny one.

<<Again your comments on "not knowing wether I own a dictionary" are not worth responding to..>>

It's funny on two counts. Do you see what those two counts are? Others will.

LOL, like you Missypuss, people think I'm ten years younger than I am. Actually that's your claim, but I haven't yet figured out how it comes up in a conversation. You have referred to me more than once as the clever young whippersnapper...or words to that effect. That's not a bad description: my guess is that I am just about 11 years younger than you are.

I don't actually think you have old and arthritic fingers. At least I hope you don't. I thought that it would be a useful excuse for the state of your 9/25 post. :wink:
.

by **missypuss** » September 27th, 2005, 2:45 pm

My only answer to your comments Sandy.
Is that I have reached the conclusion that I open my mouth and run with whats in my heart.
You on the other hand seem to open your mouth and run with whats in your head.
Intuition.
Intellect.
Anything that comes across as intuitive must frustrate the hell out of anyone who enjoys intellectualising.And vice versa.
Therefore; I stick with my opinions which come from my heart. :wink:

by **Downward** » September 27th, 2005, 8:37 pm

My Theory:

First aliens will invade us, then the realms that keep us safe from outer planar beings (Demons, imps etc) will weaken and then they will enter our world making their self known in numbers. So, it will become survival of the fitist. Predicting this will happen between 2013-2015.

How Many Here Believe in UFO's?

How Many Here Believe in UFO's?

And different hurts for different squirts.

ufo

ufo

ufo

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