Feminization / Out-of-Body Experience / Switching Bodies

by **schijnn** » March 12th, 2007, 1:02 am

Not sure how on- or off-topic this is, but I wonder if it's possible to trade bodies with someone. To astrally project, and slide into another body, while the person whose body you are overtaking does the same, taking over your body.
I like the idea of feminization, but even the most thorough feminization procedure (hypnosis, hormones, surgery, etc.) still leaves you genetically male, unable to have a period, to cum during orgasm, or become pregnant. Exchanging bodies with a female would allow all of those.
If anyone knows anything about this, please let me know. Even if you don't know anything, but you're interested in the idea, write me a reply. Heck, even if you think I'm nuts, write a reply.

- schijnn

by **Draygone** » March 12th, 2007, 12:43 pm

Body swap? I believe that's something that you won't find outside of science fiction.

by **Jacara** » March 12th, 2007, 9:00 pm

It's one of those ideas I've thought about and am intrigued by, but at best you would only "possess" each other for a limited time. It'd be difficult to find two people good enough at projecting to be able to do it at the same time reliably.
But if you believe in OBEs, then there's no reason why it couldn't work in theory.

by **Kalendaine** » March 13th, 2007, 2:12 pm

i've had that idea for some time. Reading the literature (whether or not it's credible is another matter), i've noticed in many cases that the 'form' of the astral body changes due to concious or subconcious desire. I know that i've done a couple, and in every astral trip, i was female. :p

Trading bodies, i believe, would take someone with comparable skill in astral projection. In many of the cases i've read, and in my own exploration, there's been mention of a 'cord' or 'string' connecting your astral body to your real life one. I suspect that if you had two people who had comparable skills, each handing the 'body cord' over to the other, it may actually give control of the body.

However, i suspect that that may also be permanent. In order to give it a trail run, as it were, i would think that the two people would have to 'tangle' or 'twist' the body cords in such a manner that you were still connected to your old body, yet also connected to the new.

In any case, it's all conjecture. To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever done it, if it *can* be done. Even so, maybe me, or you, or someone else will find a way.

by **sarnoga** » March 13th, 2007, 5:53 pm

If you discover a way to swap bodies with someone you will have discovered immortality or at least the possiblility of it.

This idea does not seem to rely on technology of any kind and since it does not it seems that if it were possible that there would be some record of it having been done sometime before now in all the thousands of years of human experience.

On the other hand they say there is a first time for everything, except of course for those things that have never happened. I'll bet someone once said the same thing to the Wright Brothers.

Having said that let me also say that my skeptisism should in no way discourage you from the fun of experimentation. After all, I could be wrong.

Sarnoga

by **Jacara** » March 15th, 2007, 9:33 am

If it had been done, and therefore been so significant as to grant immortality, would the people who discovered it really want to share it with the world? ;)
I say keep trying 8)

by **sarnoga** » March 15th, 2007, 10:30 pm

[quote="Jacara":35a/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/if9fc]If it had been done, and therefore been so significant as to grant immortality, would the people who discovered it really want to share it with the world? ;)
I say keep trying 8)[/quote:35a/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/if9fc]

The real question is.... could they keep it a secret?

Sarnoga

by **Capt** » March 16th, 2007, 12:07 am

The fewer people involved, the easier secrets are to keep.

by **sarnoga** » March 16th, 2007, 3:23 am

It would have to involve at least two at a minimum. And then it seems most likely that it would be almost impossible to keep it from immediate family and close friends. And thats just for starters.

Sarnoga

by **loony28** » March 19th, 2007, 6:43 am

[quote="sarnoga":89b241c/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i]It would have to involve at least two at a minimum. And then it seems most likely that it would be almost impossible to keep it from immediate family and close friends. And thats just for starters.

Sarnoga[/quote:89b241c/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i]

Well there are those that all of a sudden their personality changes. Who knows, they might have switched bodies with someone else.

by **Wildscorp** » April 25th, 2007, 4:26 pm

Very interesting topic in deed and one desire I've also had for many years. A person should also keep in mind that in the OBE process to exchange each other's life cords, to be careful of wondering spirits who would love the opportunity to steal your body if you weren't careful.

I would like to recommend another site which is in Yahoo Groups. Check out the group, "allaboutpossession".

You may find more information from the members there.

Good luck!

by **Mino** » April 26th, 2007, 11:56 am

There is no evidence which I know of which supports out of body experiences to be nothing more than an illusion. That being said it is possible to create a body swap illusion with hypnotism, you'd get two people to listen to the same file which includes suggestion to tell the other person listening to the file EVERYTHING you know, your memories and your personality etc... And then you would take on their personality and have all their thoughts and think like the would and they would do the same but with you so you would have sort of swapped minds but it still would just be an illusion but you would affectively swapped minds.

by **loony28** » April 27th, 2007, 7:14 am

Well if you don't believe in a soul or spirit then this is a moot point. Now if you do then you have to consider if the soul/spirit is able to move out of the body then it could resonably move into another body. Then you have the whole reincarnation issue. As for my personal belief, I believe that it is not only possible but that it has been done.

by **Draygone** » April 28th, 2007, 1:39 pm

[quote="Mino":/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/iadb7cd7]There is no evidence which I know of which supports out of body experiences to be nothing more than an illusion. That being said it is possible to create a body swap illusion with hypnotism, you'd get two people to listen to the same file which includes suggestion to tell the other person listening to the file EVERYTHING you know, your memories and your personality etc... And then you would take on their personality and have all their thoughts and think like the would and they would do the same but with you so you would have sort of swapped minds but it still would just be an illusion but you would affectively swapped minds.[/quote:/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/iadb7cd7]
That sounds awefully complicated. It would take a long time to explain everything about yourself to the other person. Much simpler just to have the person think that they're the person next to them, swapped bodies. The personalities and memories won't quite be the same, but it would still prove effective enough. Even moreso if the person you're next to is someone you know really well.

by **Mino** » April 28th, 2007, 2:15 pm

[quote="Draygone"][quote="Mino"]There is no evidence which I know of which supports out of body experiences to be nothing more than an illusion. That being said it is possible to create a body swap illusion with hypnotism, you'd get two people to listen to the same file which includes suggestion to tell the other person listening to the file EVERYTHING you know, your memories and your personality etc... And then you would take on their personality and have all their thoughts and think like the would and they would do the same but with you so you would have sort of swapped minds but it still would just be an illusion but you would affectively swapped minds.[/quote]
That sounds awefully complicated. It would take a long time to explain everything about yourself to the other person. Much simpler just to have the person think that they're the person next to them, swapped bodies. The personalities and memories won't quite be the same, but it would still prove effective enough. Even moreso if the person you're next to is someone you know really well.[/quote]
I suppose it would work best if it was done over a period of days, like an hour a day and a suggestion to make all the information they've given you or you've given them to be "locked up" in your head until you actually "swap bodies" and even though it would take along time any simpler or quicker method with be GREATLY inefficient.
In these periods of trancing when one person is telling the other all their experiences it could work like two sections, first section is you or them telling the other person their experience and the next section would be the person who had been listening in the first section telling the other person about themselves. Each section would be set over several periods maybe having each period themed such as the first period is your childhood memories, next teenage memories, adult memories, etc... then your personality, interests, likes and dislikes and such and etc...
Your way would be more suitable for if you wanted to just "swap bodies" for a short period of time but when you'd swap back you'd still have to have some way for the other person who is you to inform you of everything they/you did so the experience isn't wasted and they'd still not really act like you would very well unless they knew you REALLY well.
I suppose there's always just creating an illusion that you know have their body and you see them in your body and the same for them but no one else would see your illusions.

by **loony28** » April 28th, 2007, 2:35 pm

[quote="Mino":3/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/ia47895]There is no evidence which I know of which supports out of body experiences to be nothing more than an illusion.[/quote:3/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/ia47895]

Well there are numerous cases where a patient has died on the operating table and they have gone out of their body and described what was going on later when they came back. Now I know that you will say that it's just the brain hallucinating but the people have reported seeing what goes on and described exactly what happened visually as well as auditorally when they would have had no way of viewing it normally. Later the doctors have confirmed that what the patient described did in fact happen. Now if you can give me an explanation on how this could be an illusion I'd like to hear it. Bear in mind that the doctors have confirmed what the patients have said they saw while they were clinically dead. Now if this isn't proof that you can leave your body then I don't know what is.

So now let's take this further. If we can leave our bodies, then why can't we go into another persons body? There are people who claim to have done this.

by **Draygone** » April 28th, 2007, 3:06 pm

Spiritual shield? Like a spiritual firewall of sorts. It'd make sense.

by **Mino** » April 28th, 2007, 3:53 pm

[quote="loony28":/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/ide35c1/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i][quote="Mino":/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/ide35c1/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i]There is no evidence which I know of which supports out of body experiences to be nothing more than an illusion.[/quote:/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/ide35c1/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i]

Well there are numerous cases where a patient has died on the operating table and they have gone out of their body and described what was going on later when they came back. Now I know that you will say that it's just the brain hallucinating but the people have reported seeing what goes on and described exactly what happened visually as well as auditorally when they would have had no way of viewing it normally. Later the doctors have confirmed that what the patient described did in fact happen. Now if you can give me an explanation on how this could be an illusion I'd like to hear it. Bear in mind that the doctors have confirmed what the patients have said they saw while they were clinically dead. Now if this isn't proof that you can leave your body then I don't know what is.

So now let's take this further. If we can leave our bodies, then why can't we go into another persons body? There are people who claim to have done this.[/quote:/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/ide35c1/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i]
1) People CLAIM to have done this at least link to evidence or cases which support your claims. Cite your source.
2) You subconscious could of easily just put together what you would have seen with sounds and vibrations and things.
3) You're only clinically dead when your heart stops but you're not really dead until your brain stops seconds/minutes/hours later.

I personally don't believe you could swap bodies by having their soul go out of their body or anything but if you believe it and you want it then you might as well try it.

by **loony28** » April 30th, 2007, 9:39 pm

I forget where I've heard about people switching bodies but there are claims. As to being out of body during surgery, I've gotten my information from a radio show called Coast to Coast AM. If you go to their website and use the search term near death experience you should find the guests that have talked about this phenomena.

by **Kalendaine** » April 30th, 2007, 10:08 pm

The problem, loony, is that for any body-switching experience to work from NDE's, they would have to be studied, examined, brought under conscious control, and then used by at least two people to attempt such an act.

Since study and examination are the province of science, and science views NDE's as the brain's last halluicinatory gasp before death, it isn't likely to be done without a MAJOR paradigm shift throughout the whole scientific community.

Now, scientific reductionism is all good and great, but it still hasn't found out what causes people to *experience.* If you look at all the research, you find a great massive load about how you can make people feel this or remember that by stimulating parts of the brain - but never have you found anything that diminishes, modifies, or changes in any way the concept of 'selfness' in a person. The brain interprets. The soul is the observer, the experiencer. The mingling of those two - the animal, and the... well, i hate to say divine, but something trancendent - are what makes up our greatest weaknesses and our greatest strengths as living things.

Now, in that light, i'd say it is possible to switch bodies. In that sense, it would be like tranferring your old files from an old computer to a new. It would require - at least for a while - continous contact, say, by the body-cord entanglement theory expressed on the previous page, but after that, it should run smoothly.

Just my two cents.

by **Diapered_Cherub** » April 30th, 2007, 10:22 pm

by **Kalendaine** » April 30th, 2007, 10:31 pm

Cherub - how is it stupid? Wishful thinking? maybe. But we're trying to solve the problem, and see *if* it can be done instead of just saying a blanket *can't.* If it can't be done, oh well, we tried.

What laws of nature would be broken, Cherub? As far as i can see, not a single one has been, or would be. Enlighten me, please.

And no, i'm not religious. I have a very analytical mind - I'm a skeptic. I'd do very well as a scientist, thank you, with the difference that i'm not nearly as closeminded.

Cherub - if you have something *constructive,* say it. But calling others ideas 'stupid' and assuming you know the thoughts/intents of a deity isn't. And no, i'm not picking on you in particular. I'm jabbing a small needle at all closeminded people. Have a nice day/night/evening.

by **Diapered_Cherub** » April 30th, 2007, 10:54 pm

by **Kalendaine** » April 30th, 2007, 10:57 pm

Yep, I know. That's why i was asking for clarification - *why* do you think it's stupid? Just saying so doesn't make it so. And yes, i've been known to throw in my two cents as well; however, i've usually done it in a logical manner.

by **MaKO** » May 1st, 2007, 4:24 am

But scientists are working on it... did anyone read the wikidedia entry on obe?
we can make the illusion of being out of our body by several means:

- chemical (some drugs like LSD can provoke such experiences)
- electromagnetically (this is the way scientists are doing it... )
[quote]There is now an ongoing research project into the neuroscience of OBEs being undertaken by Olaf Blanke in Switzerland. This line of research acknowledges the experiences as reported by the subjects as valid. That is, people really do feel as if they have left their body. However, researchers have found that it is possible to reliably elicit such experiences by stimulating regions of the brain called the right temporal-parietal junction (TPJ; a region where the temporal lobe and parietal lobe of the brain come together). Blanke and his collaborators in Switzerland have explored the neural basis of OBEs by showing that they are reliably associated with lesions in the right TPJ region and that they can be reliably elicited with electrical stimulation of this region in a patient with epilepsy. These elicited experiences may include perceptions of transformations of the patient's arm and legs (complex somatosensory responses) and whole-body displacements (vestibular responses), all of which are commonly reported in OBEs.

In neurologically normal subjects, Blanke and colleagues then showed that the conscious experience of the self and body being in the same location depends on multisensory integration in the TPJ. Using event-related potentials, Blanke and colleagues showed the selective activation of the TPJ 33/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i-4/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i ms after stimulus onset when healthy volunteers imagined themselves in the position and visual perspective that generally are reported by people experiencing spontaneous OBEs. Transcranial magnetic stimulation in the same subjects impaired mental transformation of the participant’s own body. No such effects were found with stimulation of another site or for imagined spatial transformations of external objects, suggesting the selective implication of the TPJ in mental imagery of one's own body. In a follow up study, Arzy et al. showed that the location and timing of brain activation depended on whether mental imagery is performed with mentally embodied or disembodied self location. When subjects performed mental imagery with an embodied location, there was increased activation of a region called the "extrastriate body area" (EBA), but when subjects performed mental imagery with a disembodied location, as reported in OBEs, there was increased activation in the region of the TPJ. This leads Arzy et al. to argue that "these data show that distributed brain activity at the EBA and TPJ as well as their timing are crucial for the coding of the self as embodied and as spatially situated within the human body."

Blanke and colleagues thus propose that the right temporal-parietal junction is important for the sense of spatial location of the self, and that when these normal processes go awry, an OBE arises.[/quote]

- hypnosis/meditation ( most of you know this way.)
- and other ways...

just read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out_of_body_experience

by **loony28** » May 1st, 2007, 6:45 am

[quote="Diapered_Cherub"]Just plain stupid thinking, it'll NEVER work. Never has,never will. It would require breaking tons of laws of nature. And if you are religious, then you can pretty much bank on the fact the God never inteded for ANYONE to switch bodies for any amount of time. I am amazed this thred has continued as long as it has,, it's stupid.[/quote]

Please enlighten us stupid people. What laws of nature would be broken? Are you religious? If you are then where does it say that God never intended anyone to switch bodies for any length of time? If not then how do you know what God intended? How do you know that it's never worked? Have you been around for thousands of years and know everything that has gone on in the world? If yes then you must be God. I'm betting that you can't answer these questions.

by **Diapered_Cherub** » May 1st, 2007, 10:40 am

well hell, I learned my lesson on posting in this forum. Lesson learned is: If you are not on the band wagon stay the hell away from the thead. People will misquote, belittle, and pick your reply to death.

that said,,, I wont post another word to this thread.

by **tnot** » May 1st, 2007, 12:03 pm

it wasent that you arent on the "bandwagon" or going along with what everyone else has to say its that you said what you had to say in a demeaning fashion, im sure everyone here wants to hear your opinion, after all thats the point of a forum, but they dont want to be insulted. however i would like to comment on what you said, you said it would " break tons of laws of nature" well i hate to say this but there are no laws there kind of more like theories. if you examine anything long enough you realize you cant know everything there is about it so theres always the possibility your wrong.
look at modern day scientists and quantum physics. apparently were wrong about a whole bunch of other concrete "laws"

by **loony28** » May 1st, 2007, 4:20 pm

[quote="Diapered_Cherub"]well hell, I learned my lesson on posting in this forum. Lesson learned is: If you are not on the band wagon stay the hell away from the thead. People will misquote, belittle, and pick your reply to death.

that said,,, I wont post another word to this thread.[/quote]

Well looks like I was right, he couldn't answer the questions I posed but instead of saying he couldn't answer them he turns tail and runs. Look Diapered, people wanted a little more information on why you posted what you did. We like to encourage discussion on these threads and sometimes people like a little clarification about some posts. You had called this thread stupid and by extension those that have an open mind about this. At least that's how I took it. My comment that you must be God was sarcastic because you had stated that it never has or never will work. Unless you are God you can't possibly know that for certain. Think about this, if someone claims to have switched bodies with someone what would most people say? They'd say that that person or persons were crazy or possessed. Now how many people would come foward with this claim knowing what could happen? My guess is not very many. So you have people that claim to have switched bodies with someone but just about everyone considers them crazy or possessed. Maybe some day people will be more open minded about this and other things.

by **Kalendaine** » May 1st, 2007, 6:45 pm

That said, there *is* more than one way to get this to work. Astral projection and body transfer that way is just a method that seems to have less learning and external needs behind it than most.

Cherub, when you said it wouldn't happen, did you, by extension, exclude the concept of direct neural interfaces for body transfer? That type of thing can be done within a few decades, certainly within a hundred years.

Or perhaps did you mean doing it by the astral projection method? That is what i, personally, wanted you to clarify, although others might have wanted something different.

Also, Cherub - i can think of at least *one* 'law' of nature that would be broken if it DIDN'T work - electromagnetic theory. Think it through. Be open-minded.

Mako, on your post - no, i hadn't read the wikipedia posting on OBE's. Thanks for sharing - i'm catching up now. However, from what i've read on your post, all that is *is* illusion; it's messing with the interpretive capacity of the brain. Nothing really happens.

Of course, that view is if you believe you have a soul, and consciousness is not merely the product of your brain. :p

by **primaelgen** » May 3rd, 2007, 4:00 am

Some people are given the gift to naturally project. I've talked with some of these people, met some of them, and friends with a few. I myself have accidentally projected from time to time, but not for any good length of time.

I think swapping bodies is possible ... and you're more likely to find how to do it by searching for the knowledge in the astral realms. Not here. Which means knowing how to project. Thing is, there are so many things that can be done if one can project, like one big adventure.

For those who don't naturally project, I think learning lucid dreaming is much more rewarding. Not because you can change into whatever form you want, so much as being fully conscious in dreaming meaning being more in harmony with your subconscious. That's one of the major requirements for being able to project and retain control over where you are projecting to, i.e. retaining personal power when you do learn how to project, help you be happier even if you don't learn how to project. Knowledge comes with a price, but most people can't take anything material with them for trade, so you'll have to bring something else if you're going to go that way.

PrimaelGen Project[/i]

by **EMG** » May 3rd, 2007, 7:17 pm

Ok, diapered and looney. I can see that the two of you are REALLY getting on each other's nerves. you both need to tone it down. Looney you need to stop wording your answers as if you know everything, it's insulting, and diapered, we've already talked. Beyond that the discussion is fine just keep it civil and polite.

by **loony28** » May 4th, 2007, 7:29 am

[quote="EMG"]Ok, diapered and looney. I can see that the two of you are REALLY getting on each other's nerves. you both need to tone it down. Looney you need to stop wording your answers as if you know everything, it's insulting, and diapered, we've already talked. Beyond that the discussion is fine just keep it civil and polite.[/quote]

I never meant to give the impression that I knew everything because I don't. I'm fairly confident that body swapping is possible because of memories that have begun to surface in my mind. I will state right now that I have not swapped bodies with another person but I was not born into this body I'm inhabiting now. I guess I should explain and I hope that you'll understand it even if you don't believe me or think that I'm crazy, quite frankly I don't care if you believe me or not. Ok to begin with I have always felt that I was in the wrong body and everytime I would try to think back past my fourth birthday I would basically run into a wall. Well one night I had a vision of a couple of guys in black taking me someplace. When I asked where we were one of them said Canada. We arrive in a town and they take me to what appears to be an orphanage and we go in. A lady in there hands me a photo with the date of 12//\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i6/76 on it. It was of a girls third birthday party at the orphanage and then the lady tells me that that was me before I was transformed (could have been transferred, I'm not sure as I was quite shaken by this). That's where the vision ends. Since then I have had a couple of hazy memories drift up of me being this girl. What I surmise is that that body had somehow died (I'm thinking murder but I could be mistaken) and for some reason I entered this body which incidently has the same birthday. Now you can believe me or not, I don't really care but I do hope you can see where I get my belief that body swapping is a real possibility.

by **deathking0192** » August 13th, 2007, 10:32 pm

[quote="Kalendaine":11167f/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i7] Trading bodies, i believe, would take someone with comparable skill in astral projection. In many of the cases i've read, and in my own exploration, there's been mention of a 'cord' or 'string' connecting your astral body to your real life one. I suspect that if you had two people who had comparable skills, each handing the 'body cord' over to the other, it may actually give control of the body.

However, i suspect that that may also be permanent. In order to give it a trail run, as it were, i would think that the two people would have to 'tangle' or 'twist' the body cords in such a manner that you were still connected to your old body, yet also connected to the new.[/quote:11167f/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i7]

Ok from what i'm trying to understand from this view of the subject to me all it really sounds like u need to is practice astral projecting first into another's body without trading, the person allowing for the specter/astral body to take control without the person's astral body from leaving it would be sort of in a state of hibernation, so someone should try taking complete control of the target person's body first without any negative side effects first before attempting body switching, and if anyone manages to do this buy me a round of drinks cause this idea was just a brain fart i had in the middle of the night lol :lol:

by **wootness** » August 14th, 2007, 2:58 am

I'm not an expert on the subject, but I have been interested in astral projection for some time, mostly for the possibility of body transfer. From what I've read on the internet, it seems that the cord cannot be severed, but then again I'm sure if someone *did* have their cord severed, they wouldn't be around to tell the tale since it's supposedly the only thing keeping your soul attatched to your body during astral projections. I have a feeling that the cord isn't truly a cord in the typical sense, instead I believe it simply looks like a cord because that's the only way people can rationalize it, it is most likely something much more complex, something that we can't percieve. If that's the case, then tangling cords wouldn't be possible because they aren't truly cords and therefore would not exhibit the same properties we would expect them to. Furthermore, I doubt you would be able to grab hold of the cord, especially someone else's cord, because whatever shape you take in your astral form, man or woman, human or animal, isn't tangible, it's just an imagined shape that you percieve yourself as because it's difficult for the human mind to imagine being just a consciousness without a body. Maybe I'm just a bit pessimistic, but I seriously doubt body transfers would be possible through astral projection, I have more faith in technology (possibly a brain transfer or a mind upload) than I do in OBE's to give us a means of body transfer.

by **Kalendaine** » August 14th, 2007, 6:27 pm

Of course an astral form is an imagined shape, and therefore not tangible; that's half the reasoning behind the theory. Let's put it in the realm of tangibility for a moment, however. How much different is it than a brain transfer, or any kind of organ transplant? You're taking a part of what you call 'yourself' - your body, mind, and spirit/soul/astral form - and attaching it to a new body.

And no, i'm not sure if the 'cord' really is a cord, but i can still use a screwdriver as a hammer or an awl on occasion, none the worse for wear. And the astral realm, from what i've read, is much more fluid in what is possible than the 'real' world. Nor am i certain we can't perceive it - perhaps it's more like something we don't know how to represent in 'physical' form- for instance, how would you imagine your ties to a loved one?

And also, from my (limited) experience with astral travel, and from what i've read, what your form is *can* be seen by someone else on the astral realm, which implies that it's not 'imagined' so much as 'subconsciously shaped'.

And yes, i had more faith in technology too - but it goes too slow. I can be done in a hundred years or so, but by then i'll be too old (or dead) to really enjoy a hot 18 year old cheerleader body for too long. :p

Nor do i like the idea of a 'mind upload.' Can anyone say 'copy'? how many entities need to be around that are 'you'? and can you be legally liable for what they do? as you can see, a LOT of moral questions need to be answered before that becomes anywhere near commercially available. Plus, you wouldn't get to 'experience' anything unless 'you' were overwritten by another 'copy' or 'upload' - you sure you want to do that? What if the brain you've been occupying has a genetic defect? it'd be like catching a computer virus.

by **Tauryn258** » August 15th, 2007, 7:24 am

It's probably a mistake to clarify this topic but I'm going to do it anyway. Most of you, if not all of you, more than likely will not believe me when I say this but... yes, merging occurs. However, you do not need both parties skilled at Astral Projection. Only you need to be skilled at it and when you merge into your intended individual and gain control of their faculties and motor functions what happens to them is the merging simply shocks their essence and locks them "comatose" within the mind you now possess. The upside is you have full access to their memories, skills and identity as well as the memories and skills you already owned. The downside is now you have to tend to your original body on a regular basis for as long as you are merged so it does not fail and die. If you decide to keep your new identity, you simply split your Astral Cord (longways) like you would a bed sheet and anchor it into the new body. Once secured, you simply sever the remaining Cord from the old body as close to the point of origin as you can get and anchor that strip into the first one. No longer having an Astral connection your original body dies but this step is only necessary with the body you were born into. After that all you need to do is unplug your Anchor and take it with you but you have to merge quickly at that point, because without a secured Anchor you run the risk of Passing the Veil and if you Pass the Veil, you're dead. If that happens, the only way to reenter the world of Living will be through the natural order of rebirth, meaning you start all over again through reincarnation as a baby without any of your prior knowledge.

There you are... if you can manage it, the back door to Immortality. Sooner or later, with enough practice it becomes second nature and you'll be able to merge by touch. Anyone that has seen the movie Fallen with Denzel Washington will know exactly what I'm talking about. This is a skill taught to 3rd Degree Witches in case of utmost need, and it's actually easier than you might think. Usually, the chosen subject is someone on the verge of suicide, someone who has made the decision to throw their life away but has yet to accomplish the deed. We try to stick to these kind of people but every now and again we reach out to merge into something more.

Anyway, to answer your previous question... yes. It happens more often than you think. 6 Billion people to chose from and we gain full access to memories and skills. Friends and family are none the wiser.

Any of you that have serious and intelligent questions, I'll be happy to answer. Those of you who want to rebuke simply because you don't understand or don't want to believe... Save it!

by **loony28** » August 15th, 2007, 10:21 am

Tauryn258 perhaps you could clarify something for me. How do you tend to your body when you're in the body you decided to possess? Is the other person conscious of you being in their body?

by **Draygone** » August 15th, 2007, 10:25 am

This topic actually makes me a little interested in trying out astral projection. But I'm sure "trying out" is like some term that cannot apply to something so complex.

by **Tauryn258** » August 15th, 2007, 2:42 pm

loony28
I wasn't talking about tending the body you are in, I was referring to the body you left behind. You have to have a little forethought and some planning. Setting up a way for you to get inside the home you left behind, (without breaking and entering; for example, leaving a hidden key outside somewhere) to wash and intravenously feed your former body until, or if, you decide to let it go. As for the "mind" of the body you're currently in, they are "comatose" and if you leave that one for another, the mind you left behind will eventually recover but you can leave seeded suggestions that they have no recollection of you at all and that everything that took place was their thoughts and their actions and theirs alone.

Draygone
It's actually not as hard as it sounds, it just takes a lot of practice. "Trying it out" as you say is simple. You can inhabit a body without taking it over. You're simply "hitching a ride," kind of like a spectator. What can be difficult is giving them suggestions without letting them know you are there. But with practice you can make your suggestions seem like their thoughts. And then if you decide to take over, you are already in. Think of it like a Trojan Horse.

by **Draygone** » August 15th, 2007, 9:58 pm

So, this "hitching a ride", how much of the host's perception can one hitch on? Like would one be able to feel everything the host feels and other stuff, or would it be restricted to sight and sound? And also...
[quote]As for the "mind" of the body you're currently in, they are "comatose" and if you leave that one for another, the mind you left behind will eventually recover[/quote]
Recover, how? Like is it simply, you leave the body, and the person is left unconcious until they wake up as though they were just sleeping? Or is it something worse?

And speaking of leaving the body, would it be easier leaving another person's body than leaving your own body? I'd hate to be stuck in somebody else's body just because I haven't had enough practice.

When you're out of your own body, is your body in the same state as though it were sleeping? In other words, could one potentially go astral projecting overnight and not having to worry about any physical concequences?

How far off can one project themselves from their own body? Is there a point where the cord reaches a full length? Does the cord become more at risk of breaking the furthur you go?

BTW, how are you getting this information? Are you speaking from experience, or is this word of mouth, or what?

Finally, to everybody who's looking at this topic and shaking their heads at the ridiculousness of all this, there's nothing wrong with me being interested in this (far as I know), even if it is complete bull. :)
(Don't read that the wrong way, Tuaryn. I am definately interested in hearing your answers, even if I do hold a bit of skepticism.)

by **mat422** » August 16th, 2007, 2:59 pm

Along the lines of astral projection and body possession, I too am interested. How long exactly did it take you to be able to take over someone else's body? I have also been interested in astral projection, but always find it hard to achieve. Do you possibly have any tips to share that would help one get out of their body? Thanks

by **Tauryn258** » August 17th, 2007, 6:18 am

Draygone; mat422;

Please be patient, I'm preparing a very long response, but I'm a slow typer so it make take a day or so.

by **Draygone** » August 17th, 2007, 10:00 am

That's alright. Just so long as you make a new post, and not edit the one you just made. (Forums like this don't alert you to edited posts.) :)

by **Launch** » August 18th, 2007, 8:12 pm

by **sadiechan** » August 20th, 2007, 4:05 pm

Very interesting reading first of all. Now - don't take offence at anything I'm going to say, but I think it's pretty fair to provide a little bit of debate. After all, debate is fun.

I don't believe that switching bodies is possible, not in the sense described here in any case. I may well be wrong (as I am with most things!) but for me some of the arguments against it here were a little misunderstood.

It's difficult for us as humans to accept but there is a large possibility that what we believe makes us special, unique i.e. a spirit may not exist. The term 'spirit' is probably most used in a religious context, in the sense that a person's spirit is what will guide their moral (or faith) compass and is what makes them who they are.

The cynical scientists amongst us will say that we are just very intelligent animals, that our minds are so complex that feel more than just an animal. In fact it could be argued that animals are very complex computers. Not in the sense that Dell made animals! But in the sense that we're a brain, nerves, heart - we're a complex system.

I think the truth is probably somewhere between these two extremes, but I tend to think that the concept of a spirit that inhabits a body is probably (and sadly) incorrect. And as such I think when you dissect this scientifically, it all becomes a little difficult.

If it were possible to transfer one's spirit from one person to another, what would that actually mean? Would any physical changes occur, and if not how are memories and personality transferred, since these are stored physically in our brain? Indeed if only the spirit transfers, and the spirit is stand-alone from memories and personality, is the body switch really a true body switch?

Let's say that the minds switch - that means a physical change must occur. We're now interfering with laws of physics, chemistry and biology and as such talking about the transfer of brains and nerves. This is very difficult to believe, I'm afraid.

I'm not trying to deny what you claim to have happened, I'm just opening up for some debate. I'm espeically interested in how those who believe in astral projection for example can back it up with fact and science. I would love for it to be possible and I am open-minded and accept that I could (and going on past track record probably) be wrong.

But the cynic in me suggests it's something that's borne out of our struggle against death, a way of escape and as mentioned a few times in this forum immortality. I wish those pursuing it every success and if you manage to prove me wrong, please give me a buzz on the forum because I'd love to learn how you did it!

by **Tauryn258** » August 20th, 2007, 4:58 pm

Sorry for the delay everyone, but I'm in deep trouble with my High Priestess over this. She is NOT happy. I will post again when I get a chance.

by **Launch** » August 20th, 2007, 5:22 pm

by **sadiechan** » August 20th, 2007, 6:02 pm

Launch, you raise interesting points.

Your first paragraph is valid but I'm not sure that it proves that the concept of a spirit exists. After all, we do not think with our hands or our noses. If one were to lose one's brain one would not be able to live, and certainly not be able to think. It's valid though, and it certainly comes back to hypnosis - after all with one's brain one has the power to percieve reality how they wish - and all reality is subjective, no? In our dreams we can be anyone and anything.

Your second paragraph is more compelling for an argument of body switching. Again what you're describing is currently impossible, requiring the technology and understanding of our own anatomy that is way beyond anything humanity will achieve for a long time (definitely not in our lifetimes). But I'm not sure that something along what you're describing is that far off. This goes back to my earlier description of humans as computers. Essentially if our computer (the human body) was compatible with another computer then a cut and paste job may be possible. The complexity is mind boggling.

This is based in science and is interesting. It's also something that has featured in a lot of sci-fi literature, and is notably central to a film that is well worth a watch - Ghost in the Shell.

We're also touching on brain transplantation here and out of all the ways of switching bodies, considering what organs they can transplant already, this has got to be the most likely way of body switching in the near future.

But in terms of the here and now, I still think we're stuck in these vessels for a while...

Feminization / Out-of-Body Experience / Switching Bodies

Feminization / Out-of-Body Experience / Switching Bodies

It's all in your head...

It's called "merging"...

In trouble...

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