The forced gay success thread...

[ftslave67]

Jeshi--I guess to me it's somewhat unimportant what caused it--I'm gay, always have been, pretty much a "Kinsey 6". I've accepted it since I was 23 (49 now, grew up Catholic). It's hard to be an objective observer of your own mind--I've always had thoughts about guys since about 6th grade. I also know that I had some unusual/difficult things happen to me while growing up (not abuse, thankfully, but some slightly traumatic experiences).

I don't believe, BTW, that even if homosexuality were partly environmental that that would mean it could or should be changed.

I hadn't heard about the study you mentioned, do you have a name or reference? I'd be interested in reading it. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

[Alien4420]

[quote="Jeshi":88e5/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i853]I'm always really annoyed when people say "We still don't know for sure what causes Homosexuality, it's probably a mix of genetics and environment"

[ . . . ]

=/ It's just a pet peeve when people try and talk about scientific studies without knowing the latest version of said studies, as now and days we do know what causes homosexuality, and it's found in all animals(Although some more then others) proving it's a natural thing that happens before birth.
[/u][/quote:88e5/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i853]

Forgive my skepticism, but if scientists discovered the cause of homosexuality it would be big news.

The popularization of science carries with it a number of risks, chief among them that the press, the public, and political interest groups will exaggerate the significance of findings and downplay uncertainty. Scientists learn to wait for confirmation of findings.

Because of this tendency to jump the gun, there have been numerous false alarms over the years.

The fact that if one identical twin is gay the other has only a 5/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i% chance of being gay is strong evidence that there is an environmental component to homosexuality. Were homosexual behavior entirely genetic, both twins would be gay in every case, since they carry the same genes.

And I would suggest that the effectiveness of Cursed Forced Gay is evidence that there is a strong psychological component to homosexuality in at least some people. My own sense remains that some people are "born that way," e.g., naturally effeminate guys like Andy Warhol, and that others are not, but it's just a guess.

[Alien4420]

[quote="ftslave67"]I've been reading a book called "The Brain That Changes Itself"--the author asserts that brain functions, personality and even sexuality are somewhat fluid--especially when you are younger. I don't think anyone has all the answers yet and maybe we never will. I would say that if something you're doing bothers you, or makes you unhappy that it would be good to lay off it for a while.[/quote]

I've always found that sexuality is somewhat fluid, in myself and in others. I'm not talking about gay vs. straight here, though I do believe that that is fluid in some cases in childhood and adolescence, but rather about secondary interests. For example, it's commonly known that a lot of guys suddenly want to cross dress when they hit middle age. Changing hormones? I don't know, but I watched it happen to a friend.

[Dave564]

Well I just got back from luke's, feeling exhausted but just so good, I stayed over on sat night and it was just the most amazing weekend.

I have to say I've been doing a LOT of thinking but right now I really do feel gay, more than I ever have in my entire life - it's always felt like a tendency before but now it feels overwhelming, like 100% full homosexuality, I;ve never felt like this before in my entire life, not for a single moment - when I'm with Luke he just does something to me I can not describe, but it's like every turn on I've ever had magnified so much - the kissing and touching is so good and it gets kinkier every weekend but above all I'm starting to really miss him the time I'm away - I think I'm falling in love.

[Alien4420]

[quote="Dave564":ddf1a5/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i3]Well I just got back from luke's, feeling exhausted but just so good, I stayed over on sat night and it was just the most amazing weekend.

I have to say I've been doing a LOT of thinking but right now I really do feel gay, more than I ever have in my entire life - it's always felt like a tendency before but now it feels overwhelming, like 1/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i% full homosexuality, I;ve never felt like this before in my entire life, not for a single moment - when I'm with Luke he just does something to me I can not describe, but it's like every turn on I've ever had magnified so much - the kissing and touching is so good and it gets kinkier every weekend but above all I'm starting to really miss him the time I'm away - I think I'm falling in love.[/quote:ddf1a5/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i3]

Way to go, Dave!

[ftslave67]

Good for you, Dave! You seem like such a great guy & I wish you all the happiness in the world!

[Dave564]

thanks thanks guys, can i pm you or do you have msn or something?

[ftslave67]

Alien, I did find an article in Discover magazine from 2007. There's at least one scientist who explains the "50%" by certain genes being "switched off, or methylated--that's his hypothesis. I guess there are other traits which are not necessarily the same in identical twins, like eye color and fingerprints. Supposedly the "switch on or off" factor is not directly inherited.

http://discovermagazine.com/2007/jun/born-gay

I would say, from my knowledge, that it is not universally accepted in the scientific community that homosexuality is 100% genetic and/or hormonal--i.e. it hasn't been proven positively. There is strong evidence that genetics is a factor. Otherwise, it would be much less than 50%, no? I would ask would or should it change anything if you knew that it was 100% genetic?

[Alien4420]

[quote="ftslave67"]Alien, I did find an article in Discover magazine from 2/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i7. There's at least one scientist who explains the "5/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i%" by certain genes being "switched off, or methylated--that's his hypothesis. I guess there are other traits which are not necessarily the same in identical twins, like eye color and fingerprints. Supposedly the "switch on or off" factor is not directly inherited.

http://discovermagazine.com/2/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i7/jun/born-gay

I would say, from my knowledge, that it is not universally accepted in the scientific community that homosexuality is 1/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i% genetic and/or hormonal--i.e. it hasn't been proven positively. There is strong evidence that genetics is a factor. Otherwise, it would be much less than 5/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i%, no? I would ask would or should it change anything if you knew that it was 1/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i% genetic?[/quote]

That's a very interesting article.

I've read something about the new research into gene expression. It seems that we can indeed inherit traits over several generations without any changes in the genes themselves. But whether this applies to homosexuality is still speculation at this point, as are most of the other hypotheses in the article.

I agree that there's strong evidence that genetics is a factor -- if it weren't, it would be hard to explain why identical twins are both gay 5/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i% of the time but fraternal twins only (33% or 2/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i% depending on what I've read) of the time. But not 1/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i% proof. Also, there's strong evidence that environment is a factor, but again, I don't think it's 1/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i%.

That being said, I think at this point that the chance there isn't a psychological factor is less than nil. All the evidence says that human sexuality isn't determined the same way it is in animals. And as I understand it there are studies of adopted children that point to some kind of environmental factor. But -- beyond that -- I don't you can listen to CFG or other such files without learning that in human beings, orientation can be changed in at least some of us through purely psychological mechanisms. Mechanisms which are in some respects pretty classical, in that they involve instinct, repression, and sublimation, and can be altered by addressing the subconscious while in a trance.

Beyond that, well, it's just a matter of curiosity to me, with perhaps the uncomfortable knowledge that in some cases anyway we may have the tools to "change" homosexuality, with all the prospects for abuse that implies. I do think that some people argue these points emotionally, with some gay people being very attached to the notion that everything is genetic, and some on the religious right -- or gay guys in denial -- attached to the utterly preposterous notion that sexuality is merely a matter of choice. And I think in the first place the genetics explanation has been seized on as an argument against the choice nonsense. Missing from the picture, as so often in modern debate, seems to be an understanding that there are aspects of personality which are in effect software rather than hardware but which can't easily be changed.

And -- I don't know if anyone else has had this thought -- I'm a bit bemused that some guys on a kinky hypnosis site know something that seems to be missing from the current scientific debate. Probably just as well, given the horrors that psychologists and religious nuts have visited on the gay community.

[Jeshi]

[quote="Alien442/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i"]

And -- I don't know if anyone else has had this thought -- I'm a bit bemused that some guys on a kinky hypnosis site know something that seems to be missing from the current scientific debate. Probably just as well, given the horrors that psychologists and religious nuts have visited on the gay community.[/quote]

That would be because the website is about changing things.
About using hypnosis to change people to be more obedient or more primal or so they freeze when they ehar a word.

And people that focus on "Straightening" out people are all religious nuts who think of homosexuality as a behavior like scratching your nose or being an alcholic and thus use the same techniques to break habit or from an AA meeting to try and change people, although they use hypnosis sometimes as well =/

The thing is that "Scientist" can be anybody, and there are many issue where study after study reveals something SHOCKING about a topic and then a new one says the opposite, many time people are caught testing something and then publishing fake results because they have a bias.

Global warming and the oil crisis are a good example, Al gore sponsors a study and it says oil is killing everything, but ExxonMobil sponsors a study and it finds the opposite.

Believe it or not there ARE religious nuts who call them selfs "Scientists" who do "Studies" and then publish results that confuse the idea.

And it doesn't help that what YEAR a study is from doesn't seem to matter to a lot of people, how many times has fox news quoted studies on homosexuality from the early 2/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/ith century that say homosexuality is caused by a lack of father figure?

I mean, at the school I went too there was an OLD OLD OLD dusty book about sex that said Homosexuality is caused when the son falls in love with his mother but then realizes that incest is wrong and then blocks out suppresses his attraction to her and therefore all woman, and then right next to it a book saying it was natural from birth.


=/ Also too the identical twins thing everybody keeps mentioning, I don't have a PHD or anything and I'm citing a show on National geographic but on this show it was a hour long special about identical twins and they talked about homosexuality issue and said that because they were identical they could seclude other factors for the testing and found that it was caused by a gene in one of the twins DNA activating that didn't activate in the other, which caused one twin to absorb less testosterone, and this pair of twins said they were raised in the same environment being treated as the same person pretty much.

The 5/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i% number is an estimate{Of course} which is to say that if one twin had the gene activate then there is half a chance the other one had it activate too.

The show kept mentioning that identical twins come in many different forms and they aren't always really "Identical", another example besides the gay twin was a set of identical twin girls from a couple in which the mother was black and the father was black, but the mother's mother was white. and while the twins were identical in every other way, one girl was black and the other was white, because the gene from their white grandmother only activated in one of them.

So really it does come down to the gene's activating thing, after all, familys tend to have very similar genes, if it didn't come down to genes activating differently then having one gay relative you descended from would cause almost the entire male part of the family tree to be gay, as they would all have the "Gay gene" {Which is more like a failure to absorb testosterone into the entire brain gene}

[Alien4420]

[quote="Jeshi"]
That would be because the website is about changing things.
About using hypnosis to change people to be more obedient or more primal or so they freeze when they ehar a word.

And people that focus on "Straightening" out people are all religious nuts who think of homosexuality as a behavior like scratching your nose or being an alcholic and thus use the same techniques to break habit or from an AA meeting to try and change people, although they use hypnosis sometimes as well =/

The thing is that "Scientist" can be anybody, and there are many issue where study after study reveals something SHOCKING about a topic and then a new one says the opposite, many time people are caught testing something and then publishing fake results because they have a bias.

Global warming and the oil crisis are a good example, Al gore sponsors a study and it says oil is killing everything, but ExxonMobil sponsors a study and it finds the opposite.

Believe it or not there ARE religious nuts who call them selfs "Scientists" who do "Studies" and then publish results that confuse the idea.

And it doesn't help that what YEAR a study is from doesn't seem to matter to a lot of people, how many times has fox news quoted studies on homosexuality from the early 2/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/ith century that say homosexuality is caused by a lack of father figure?

I mean, at the school I went too there was an OLD OLD OLD dusty book about sex that said Homosexuality is caused when the son falls in love with his mother but then realizes that incest is wrong and then blocks out suppresses his attraction to her and therefore all woman, and then right next to it a book saying it was natural from birth.


=/ Also too the identical twins thing everybody keeps mentioning, I don't have a PHD or anything and I'm citing a show on National geographic but on this show it was a hour long special about identical twins and they talked about homosexuality issue and said that because they were identical they could seclude other factors for the testing and found that it was caused by a gene in one of the twins DNA activating that didn't activate in the other, which caused one twin to absorb less testosterone, and this pair of twins said they were raised in the same environment being treated as the same person pretty much.

The 5/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i% number is an estimate{Of course} which is to say that if one twin had the gene activate then there is half a chance the other one had it activate too.

The show kept mentioning that identical twins come in many different forms and they aren't always really "Identical", another example besides the gay twin was a set of identical twin girls from a couple in which the mother was black and the father was black, but the mother's mother was white. and while the twins were identical in every other way, one girl was black and the other was white, because the gene from their white grandmother only activated in one of them.

So really it does come down to the gene's activating thing, after all, familys tend to have very similar genes, if it didn't come down to genes activating differently then having one gay relative you descended from would cause almost the entire male part of the family tree to be gay, as they would all have the "Gay gene" {Which is more like a failure to absorb testosterone into the entire brain gene}[/quote]

I agree that religious nuts try to shanghai science, as do activists of all stripes, including those with whom I have more sympathy. That's why I prefer to judge the science itself.

It's not true, BTW, that scientists can be anybody. They're almost routinely guys with PhD's and if they're real they publish in reputable peer-reviewed journals. In hard scientists like biology, the threshhold is very high. (Soft sciences like psychology are a different story.)

(I'd like to note, though, that virtually no reputable climate scientists are warming deniers. That's a lie that's been spread by energy companies and the right wing media. Essentially the same thing as what the tobacco companies did years ago.)

One of the things that many people without scientific training don't know is that most scientists are deeply skeptical of studies and experiments until they've been independently confirmed. The press routinely ignores that, trumpeting every new and unverified result as if it were earth shaking (how many times have I read articles that announced that the cause of homosexuality had been discovered?). The press and public also draw conclusions that aren't warranted by the evidence.

Re genes and gene expression: I think gene expression is a possibility, though it would require a mechanism that affects the egg after its first division and before the embryo has differentiated too far. So are other developmental abnormalities, e.g., transcription errors. But there are other possibilities as well. For example, it's possible that some genes make the fetus more susceptible to environment, pre- or post-natal. It's also possible that multiple genes are involved, or recessives, etc. Sickle-cell trait is a famous case, in which a single copy of the sickle cell gene confers a survival advantage by making the red blood cells resistant to the malaria parasite, but two copies of the gene cause sickle-cell disease. The gene survives because the reproductive advantages of having a single copy outweigh on average the reproductive disadvantage of having two copies. So a gay gene might, in people who have a single copy, confer a reproductive advantage, while people who have two copies are more likely to be gay. The reproductive advantages of the single copy would outweigh the reproductive disadvantages of two.

Anyway, just pointing out that there are lots of possibilities. What I do think the evidence says at this point is that there is something genetic, or having to do with gene expression or perhaps an unknown mechanism, involved, since if there weren't, identical and fraternal twins would have the same incidence of correlated homosexuality, and they don't.

[ftslave67]

I guess we're a little off-topic (partly my fault), but its great that we can have an interesting discussion and maintain civility here. You are all Very Good Boys!

[Alien4420]

[quote="ftslave67":fe8b82/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i6]I guess we're a little off-topic (partly my fault), but its great that we can have an interesting discussion and maintain civility here. You are all Very Good Boys![/quote:fe8b82/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i6]

To bring it back on topic, I just realized it's been about 6 weeks since I stopped listening to CFG. So far, the effects aren't wearing off. I thought they were when I got some of my interest in women back maybe a week ago, but that only lasted one night and since then, I haven't been able to get interested in women at all, even with the same exact fantasy I had that night. So I've been freaking out a bit. But I can't seem to make myself listen to CFS or Deprogram All.

[cisvestite]

[quote="Alien442/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i":/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/iafb43da]I agree that religious nuts try to shanghai science, as do activists of all stripes, including those with whom I have more sympathy. That's why I prefer to judge the science itself.

It's not true, BTW, that scientists can be anybody. They're almost routinely guys with PhD's and if they're real they publish in reputable peer-reviewed journals. In hard scientists like biology, the threshhold is very high. (Soft sciences like psychology are a different story.)

(I'd like to note, though, that virtually no reputable climate scientists are warming deniers. That's a lie that's been spread by energy companies and the right wing media. Essentially the same thing as what the tobacco companies did years ago.)[/quote:/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/iafb43da]

Thanks for pointing this out, as this is the best way to put the false impression that there's controversy among climatologists as to whether AGW is occurring. Perhaps only marginally more than there is that controversy among biologists over common descent.

[quote:/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/iafb43da]Re genes and gene expression: I think gene expression is a possibility, though it would require a mechanism that affects the egg after its first division and before the embryo has differentiated too far. So are other developmental abnormalities, e.g., transcription errors. But there are other possibilities as well. For example, it's possible that some genes make the fetus more susceptible to environment, pre- or post-natal. It's also possible that multiple genes are involved, or recessives, etc. Sickle-cell trait is a famous case, in which a single copy of the sickle cell gene confers a survival advantage by making the red blood cells resistant to the malaria parasite, but two copies of the gene cause sickle-cell disease. The gene survives because the reproductive advantages of having a single copy outweigh on average the reproductive disadvantage of having two copies. So a gay gene might, in people who have a single copy, confer a reproductive advantage, while people who have two copies are more likely to be gay. The reproductive advantages of the single copy would outweigh the reproductive disadvantages of two.[/quote:/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/iafb43da]

I suspect that there is a heterozygote advantage involved, since that would explain how something that's partially genetically controlled and maladaptive could be sustained in the population. Another possibility I've heard to explain this (purely speculative, of course) is that there's a pathogen involved at some critical period.

As far as I can tell, you're right in your assessment. The Bailey & Pillard twin studies clearly show that there's a significant genetic component to homosexuality. The remainder of the variation could be any number of things (and we still don't know the actual mechanism behind the genetic component).

Homosexuality has a few interesting biological correlates besides genes too (e.g. the size of the third interstitial nucleus in the anterior hypothalamus), so there's pretty clearly something different going on biologically.

[ftslave67]

Alien, since the "program" tells you that it's a curse, can't be removed, etc, then maybe that thought comes up in your head when you are "trying" to get aroused by women. Do you *want* to go back? If you do, I have no doubt that you can do it, but it may take a while and you may have to "just let it happen"--i.e., not "try". Sooner or later, if you don't obsess about sex--men or women--I think you will find your natural sexuality reasserting itself. Also you could try laying off the hypnosis for a while :D

[Alien4420]

[quote="ftslave67":22/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/ifc4a4]Alien, since the "program" tells you that it's a curse, can't be removed, etc, then maybe that thought comes up in your head when you are "trying" to get aroused by women. Do you *want* to go back? If you do, I have no doubt that you can do it, but it may take a while and you may have to "just let it happen"--i.e., not "try". Sooner or later, if you don't obsess about sex--men or women--I think you will find your natural sexuality reasserting itself. Also you could try laying off the hypnosis for a while :D[/quote:22/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/ifc4a4]

The sense I get when I try to get aroused by women is that I'm reacting just as the file told me to, e.g., "breasts are just nice bumps," "you will wish she had a cock," etc. I know that my original feelings are down there, but they're repressed and I can't will them back, it doesn't work.

As to whether I want to become straight again, well, I think I'm conflicted. For example, this morning I was feeling bad about the possibility that I'd stay gay, but I just had a stray thought about men and got horny, and after that, my feelings did a total about face. Also, while I feel bad about not being able to do it with women (which is a suggestion in Forced Gay), I can't psych myself to listen to CFS Lite or Deprogram All again, so part of me apparently doesn't even want to be bi.

From the comments everyone has made, I gather that there are two outcomes once you've listened as long as I have, the file wears off, or you freak out and then give in. Or maybe keep listening the way Dave currently is. I haven't listened to any files for about six weeks, so I guess things are going to take their course. If I could snap my fingers I'd go back to being straight, but I guess it would be pretty intense if I ended up gay. I sort of want to know so I can stop being conflicted and enjoy whatever I am. I think you're right that I should just lay back and let things happen, but as long as I'm not sure how I'll end up I think I'm going to feel conflicted and worry the bone a bit . . . part of me just wants to go back to listening to Forced Gay just to bring things to a conclusion as soon as possible, part of me doesn't want to close off any opportunities as long as it might wear off or I might be able to psych myself into listening to the deprogramming files.

[Alien4420]

[quote="cisvestite"]
I suspect that there is a heterozygote advantage involved, since that would explain how something that's partially genetically controlled and maladaptive could be sustained in the population. Another possibility I've heard to explain this (purely speculative, of course) is that there's a pathogen involved at some critical period.

As far as I can tell, you're right in your assessment. The Bailey & Pillard twin studies clearly show that there's a significant genetic component to homosexuality. The remainder of the variation could be any number of things (and we still don't know the actual mechanism behind the genetic component).

Homosexuality has a few interesting biological correlates besides genes too (e.g. the size of the third interstitial nucleus in the anterior hypothalamus), so there's pretty clearly something different going on biologically.[/quote]

I found extremely interesting the account of data that shows that the rate of male homosexuality rises with the number of male children a mother has, and the claim that this phenomenon accounts for 2/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i-3/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i% of male homosexuals. It seems to me that one possibility is that a gene confers a high rate of reproductive success while also increasing the probability that later children will be gay. The gene would not be easily displaced since the higher rate of reproductive success would balance the lower reproductive success rate of the homosexual offspring.

[ftslave67]

Alien, you seem like a very thoughtful guy--the man or woman lucky enough to win your heart is going to be very lucky! Maybe you'll decide to "see what it's like" to be with another man--it happens, a lot from what I read, even without hypnosis. Maybe you'll like it, maybe not. Or maybe you'll meet a nice girl and she'll captivate your attention so that you can't think about anything else. There are a lot of possiblities.

[Alien4420]

[quote="ftslave67":c/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i684c6/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i]Alien, you seem like a very thoughtful guy--the man or woman lucky enough to win your heart is going to be very lucky! Maybe you'll decide to "see what it's like" to be with another man--it happens, a lot from what I read, even without hypnosis. Maybe you'll like it, maybe not. Or maybe you'll meet a nice girl and she'll captivate your attention so that you can't think about anything else. There are a lot of possiblities.[/quote:c/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i684c6/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i]

Hey, thanks. Of course forums have the advantage of not showing that you could stand to lose 2/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i pounds. :-)

As things now are, if I meet someone it's going to be a guy, and there won't be any hesitation, the attraction is just too strong. Whatever doubts I have don't seem to extend to my sexual response, whenever I think things are changing or wearing off seeing a good-looking guy on the street or looking at porn brings me back to earth.

I was thinking today that the way I'm reacting reminds me a lot of post I see on forums by gay kids who are just discovering that they're gay . . . there's an initial disconnect between their desires and expectations and their sexual orientation.

But I don't have any problem with being with a guy sexually or emotionally. It's more the way society views gay people, imagining telling friends, that sort of thing, as well as some disappointment that I can't get interested in women (which is a suggestion in the file).

[xxxlatexloverxxx]

about the post where children with older brothers have a higher chance of being gay: I saw somewhere that the female body recognizes the male foetus as an foreign substance which must therefore be purged from the body. As the woman has more male children, her antibodies develop stronger and stronger defenses against male foetuses which results in the emasculation of the baby about to be born.

[Alien4420]

[quote="xxxlatexloverxxx":9c/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i39b25]about the post where children with older brothers have a higher chance of being gay: I saw somewhere that the female body recognizes the male foetus as an foreign substance which must therefore be purged from the body. As the woman has more male children, her antibodies develop stronger and stronger defenses against male foetuses which results in the emasculation of the baby about to be born.[/quote:9c/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i39b25]

They said that in the article I read too. The question I had was essentially why that phenomenon persists, despite the fact that it would seem to discourage reproduction so one would expect strong selection pressure against it.

[ftslave67]

Alien--Geez, 20 lbs is nothing--you know you can lose that if you want to, and be healthier, but you know, no one's perfect! Even at 20 lbs overweight, you're still in better shape than about 80% of the population! I lost 25 lbs a couple years back and feel better--more energy. You can probably lose 5 in a week, then 1 or 2 a week, slow & steady is best. I think meditation & really paying attention to what I eat helps me keep it off.

Yeah, I think you are right about young people discovering they are gay. They say you have to "come out" to yourself first, and it's a process--takes some getting used to. I probably said this before, but that didn't happen for me until I was 23. And for some, it is even later in life. One thing is, you don't ever HAVE to tell anyone you don't want to. You don't want to hear about straight friends' sex lives, so why should they care about yours?

I think you said a while back that you had a live session which gave you some negative suggestions about "gay feelings"? Do you think that could be causing you some anxiety? Maybe you can just think about what those suggestions were, and decide that they "don't fit"/don't work for you/don't apply to you right now?

[Alien4420]

[quote="ftslave67":/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/if3c3124]Alien--Geez, 2/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i lbs is nothing--you know you can lose that if you want to, and be healthier, but you know, no one's perfect! Even at 2/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i lbs overweight, you're still in better shape than about 8/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i% of the population! I lost 25 lbs a couple years back and feel better--more energy. You can probably lose 5 in a week, then 1 or 2 a week, slow & steady is best. I think meditation & really paying attention to what I eat helps me keep it off.

Yeah, I think you are right about young people discovering they are gay. They say you have to "come out" to yourself first, and it's a process--takes some getting used to. I probably said this before, but that didn't happen for me until I was 23. And for some, it is even later in life. One thing is, you don't ever HAVE to tell anyone you don't want to. You don't want to hear about straight friends' sex lives, so why should they care about yours?

I think you said a while back that you had a live session which gave you some negative suggestions about "gay feelings"? Do you think that could be causing you some anxiety? Maybe you can just think about what those suggestions were, and decide that they "don't fit"/don't work for you/don't apply to you right now?[/quote:/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/if3c3124]

Yeah, I think the negativity dates from that live session, and also perhaps from listening to Forced Straight. I do know what the suggestions were, they internalized straight dislike of gay people, created a homophobic persona which even when it was lifted left a residue of self-directed homophobia.

More evidence last night that CFG may be wearing off, BTW, I was into women for a while. Then I came across a picture of a guy having sex with a woman and realized I much preferred the guy, then started looking at guys and felt gayer than ever . . . but it seems that to be completely into it now I have to counteract the suggestion by doing what you suggest above, and saying it doesn't apply to me right now -- specifically, I pretend that homosexuality is as socially accepted as heterosexuality, and then the full force of my attraction to men comes back and I wonder how I could ever want anything else.

[ftslave67]

you know, just because homosexuality isn't "socially accepted" (and it is becoming more and more acceptable as people "evolve" and realize it is not a choice), doesn't mean it is wrong or wrong for you. Where I live, being a Michigan fan is not "socially acceptable", lol :D . Maybe you should focus on your attraction to a particular *person*, whether male or female, and not so much an *ideal* or generic man or woman. There are people who are bisexual, who feel attraction to both sexes. You can meet new people and decide who you are attracted to. Maybe assume you're bi until you feel strongly otherwise?

[Alien4420]

[quote="ftslave67"]you know, just because homosexuality isn't "socially accepted" (and it is becoming more and more acceptable as people "evolve" and realize it is not a choice), doesn't mean it is wrong or wrong for you. Where I live, being a Michigan fan is not "socially acceptable", lol :D . Maybe you should focus on your attraction to a particular *person*, whether male or female, and not so much an *ideal* or generic man or woman. There are people who are bisexual, who feel attraction to both sexes. You can meet new people and decide who you are attracted to. Maybe assume you're bi until you feel strongly otherwise?[/quote]

I wouldn't mind being bi, in fact, I think it would be great, but CFG isn't happy with that, besides which it seems to be difficult to arrange to be attracted to both sexes equally. I made an attempt to move in that direciton when I made Forced Straight Lite and Forced Gay Lite, the idea was to increase attraction to women without conflicting with Forced Gay, and I think it actually started to work, but as I said I wasn't able to listen to it more than once.

Meanwhile, there's no question about who I'm attracted to now, it's men. It doesn't require a relationship to see that, if I see a hot guy I want to jump into his pants, while my attraction to women at this point at this point is rare and mild. And if I met the right guy at this point I would end up in a relationship with him, or at least sex, if I could, it's not really optional for me because the attraction is so strong that if he reciprocated it would just happen. Like it would have that day in the waiting room if I hadn't had to stay around and hadn't been too confused to ask for his phone number.

What's happened though twice in the last week is that my attraction to women has come back in fantasies and then while looking at porn, which is why I'm thinking Forced Gay may be wearing off as it did in MTY's case.

The social acceptance thing -- well, yes, I think you have an excellent point. I guess in the absence of a person (which isn't going to change until I'm back in civilization, which isn't going to be for some months yet) it's more of an impediment. Or maybe it's just that real life hypnosis working, because when I was listening to Forced Gay before that my attitude was "Hey, cool!" I kind of loved the idea of doing all the things that used to make me uncomfortable, dressing gay, walking hand-in-hand with another guy -- it was remarkable to see how my attitudes turned around and not only did I lose all traces of homophobia but actually loved and wanted to do the things that used to make me anxious when I saw guys doing them.

I think I've also had to deal with the homophobes on gay forums I've visited, not sure how much that affected me but it's a vivid reminder of discrimination. I always tell other people to go with their heart, but I'm finding it's a bit harder to do it yourself than to recommend it, LOL . . . if someone had a gay acceptance file at this point I'd gladly listen to it. Otherwise I'm guessing that if it doesn't wear off I'll have to go through some of the process that gay kids go through to keep from internalizing the social pressure and repressing my own feelings.

The other thing that happened today is I read the script of forced gay . . . not sure why, I felt that I wanted to see what it had to say about when you have to listen to it again, even though I've listened to it a million times and really do know, and then read every word lovingly. And I got very horny while I was reading it. Interesting, no? There's some kind of battle going on in my psyche . . . I really do wish I was someplace where I could interact with people as you suggest and speed the process to whatever conclusion it's going to reach . . .

[ftslave67]

Seeing how you've listened to the file a bunch, and it has suggestions to get aroused, I'm not surprised you would get aroused reading it! I think for any guy, that's not a difficult suggestion to follow (getting aroused), since it's so pleasurable.

Sorry to hear you're so isolated--feel free to PM me on here, or I'll give you a YM ID & we could chat if you want.

[Alien4420]

[quote="ftslave67"]Seeing how you've listened to the file a bunch, and it has suggestions to get aroused, I'm not surprised you would get aroused reading it! I think for any guy, that's not a difficult suggestion to follow (getting aroused), since it's so pleasurable.

Sorry to hear you're so isolated--feel free to PM me on here, or I'll give you a YM ID & we could chat if you want.[/quote]

More interesting experiences. CFG now seems almost certainly to be wearing off! Last night, I was very much into women, though not as it turned out entirely there, so I went back to guys. But to get fully into it I had consciously to cede control to EMG. Once I did that, the shift was remarkable. I suddenly became completely gay again. It was almost as if I had been programmed with a trigger.

What's more, here I was thinking that I was changing back, and then I saw a hot guy across the street and got hard.

Well, I'm sitting here and thinking I don't want to give that up.

Will PM you in a bit, my IM is currently down because I've been working on a renovation project upstairs and checking into the computer briefly when I grab lunch/run out of steam/just get lazy. So I haven't had time to fix Pidgin, for some reason it hasn't been connecting properly and I don't think it's set up for Yahoo IM, though I do have a Yahoo account.

[ftslave67]

"cede control to EMG"--or to your subconscious?

the feeling of letting go is very sexy--that's why sometimes this hypnosis stuff can't get you more aroused than you can make yourself manually! and your subconscious or id or whatever doesn't care about convention or what right or wrong, it just wants to prolong, extend and increase the good feelings and submit to them.

[Jeshi]

What are these "lite" files I keep seeing mentioned?
They aren't on the files page.

[Alien4420]

[quote="Jeshi":/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i8b8edef]What are these "lite" files I keep seeing mentioned?
They aren't on the files page.[/quote:/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i8b8edef]

Oops, sorry, I'd mentioned them a bit back in the thread, didn't mean to send you on a wild goose chase! They're just edited versions of Forced Gay and Forced Straight I made with the negative suggestions removed, so CFG Lite doesn't tell you you can't have sex with men and vice versa.

My idea was that since Forced Straight wasn't working for me because of the conflicting suggestions I could try removing the areas that conflicted. I didn't put them up here because they're too rough.

[Alien4420]

[quote="ftslave67"]"cede control to EMG"--or to your subconscious?

the feeling of letting go is very sexy--that's why sometimes this hypnosis stuff can't get you more aroused than you can make yourself manually! and your subconscious or id or whatever doesn't care about convention or what right or wrong, it just wants to prolong, extend and increase the good feelings and submit to them.[/quote]

Maybe to the stuff EMG has put in my subconscious? Because when I gave myself that suggestion, not only did CFG come back but Stroke Sissy as well.

That's an interesting point, BTW. I really am more aroused when I listen to these files. I've noticed too that when I was listening to CFG I was able to come twice as often as I can now.

[Jeshi]

I just thought of something interesting.
Curse force gay has the suggestion "When you try to have sex with a woman you will wish she had a cock" and Curse Cock makes it so whenever you see a naked woman you will believe she has a cock, it doesn't change your sexual preference you just believe that woman have cocks when you see them.

Thus, your wishing that the woman had a cock is granted by curse cocks making you think she has one!


Maybe one of the people trying to fight CFG could use that strategy? XD

[Alien4420]

[quote="Jeshi"]I just thought of something interesting.
Curse force gay has the suggestion "When you try to have sex with a woman you will wish she had a cock" and Curse Cock makes it so whenever you see a naked woman you will believe she has a cock, it doesn't change your sexual preference you just believe that woman have cocks when you see them.

Thus, your wishing that the woman had a cock is granted by curse cocks making you think she has one!


Maybe one of the people trying to fight CFG could use that strategy? XD[/quote]

That's an amusing idea! I haven't had very good results with using one file to fight or trick another, though . . .

[Route42]

I've been using this file for a while now... most of the summer, maybe? With slight but not really noticeable effects. Enough to get on google image search and experience some new sensations while searching for guys and to enjoy gay erotic literature online (asstr ftw)... but nothing to dethrone any attraction to females while out and about and no crushes on guys or anything like that.

However, the past week has seen some interesting developments. First of all, I found a picture of a guy that just dazzled me. I kept it in a separate tab in my browser for a couple of days before I had to shut off my computer. (Wish I could remember how I found it, actually. Would enjoy referring back to it.) Around this time I noticed as well that fantasizing about physical contact with a guy was much more pleasurable than fantasizing about said contact with a girl. Well, over the weekend I met a bunch of new people, and tonight as I was thinking about this one guy it suddenly hit me blindside in the gut how appealing he was. I'm going to mark it as my first guy crush. Probably won't last... nor would I really want it to with this specific guy. But still a rather landmark event none the less.

[ftslave67]

Route--I think sometimes it takes time. Depends on how "motivated" you are--how bad you want it. If you listen every day, I don't think it will take long!

[Alien4420]

Yeah, what ftslave said . . . if you listen daily things should start happening quickly at this point.

[AlanH26]

So how are you getting on with it Dave? Are you still listening to the file and still seeing that man? Genuinely curious as to how you're getting on and whether you'd class yourself as gay yet.

[Dave564]

Hello everyone, wow well it's been a long while since I came on the website, the reason why I stopped posting is that Luke, the guy I met through the website had decided he'd rather I didn't go into every single detail of our private lives on a public forum - so I wanted to respect his wishes!

So I guess I should give an update, simply put I now feel completely homosexual, I'm in love with Luke and I plan to move in with him in just under 2 weeks time.

I can't ever imagine being straight, I have absolutely no feelings or interest in women and it's really difficult remembering how it felt to care about women because right now they aren't doing anything for me whatsoever.

Since our first meet, I've practically lived at Luke's every weekend since, and only recently I've decided to become his boyfriend, he makes me feel utterly amazing.

Quite a few things have changed, we go to the gym regularly now and on friday nights we occasionally go clubbing - something I'd never have done - he's taught me how to dance and have fun at clubs and things like that.

I dress quite differently when we're together and when we go out at night, he's definitely kinda gotten me into a new style but it feels normal now and I love it, also my taste in music has completely changed - I'm now totally into club and dance music - it feels fabulous to listen and dance to, I sold off my entire old music collection at a second hand shop last week!

On very specific occasions I've been out "gay" in public with him and it's felt amazing, once I've moved in we're going to discuss about how I should come out to everyone full-time, so I can dress and do what I like whenever I want, Ive been looking forward to it for months.

so that's basically it!

Oh yeah once I'm out of the closet I'm considering going blonde :)

[PeppermintT]

Thats certainly an impressive change in 3 or 4 months. Congratulations! :)

[Alien4420]

Blond is good. :-)

[ftslave67]

Blonde?!--dead giveaway! :D

[OutofTowner]

I fully understand why someone who was struggling with their bi or homosexuality might try this. But why do straight guys listen if it says it will force you gay? The title isn't a dead giveaway?

I just don't understand it.

I have to admit that I'm vaguely interested in a "I could totally resist that" kinda way. But why risk it?

[boomsmee]

I tried listening to it a couple years ago because at the time I wasnt happy with my lack of success in the dating scene, and I felt that this file could open up new options for me. However, I wasnt able to trance to this file, snapping out of trance within a few minutes after the induction finished.

[ftslave67]

OutOfTowner--why, indeed?

Maybe some guys are "bi-curious" or sublimating their feelings for other men, and this file, by making it seem coerced, removes some of the mental barriers.

Also. some people are attracted to or excited by risk-taking. So they listen. And they get hooked.

[Alien4420]

Also, a couple of guys listened because their girlfriends got them to on a dare. Some guys have a hypnofetish and are turned on by the idea of being transformed. And some guys get led here by other files, a lot of feminization files have suggestions about sex with men and when a file makes you want to do something you can suddenly find yourself wanting to listen to files that reinforce that.

Plus, a lot of guys don't take these files seriously. They don't believe in hypnosis and want to prove that it doesn't work. Maybe they've tried other files and found as I had that the effects were only partial, or could be thrown off/wore off. But these curse files are stronger stuff. I know that when I was listening, I didn't like the suggestions about not being able to have sex with women but I figured I could just listen to another file later and reverse them.

[Alien4420]

[quote="boomsmee"]I tried listening to it a couple years ago because at the time I wasnt happy with my lack of success in the dating scene, and I felt that this file could open up new options for me. However, I wasnt able to trance to this file, snapping out of trance within a few minutes after the induction finished.[/quote]

Sounds like you had a deep-seated objection to the suggestions. At least that's what happens to me, if I hit a suggestion that freaks me out I pop out of trance.

[hypnoslave85]

I think that of us who listened to this file thought they colud resist the affects of listening to the cfg file. I listened to it thinking that it would'nt work so i had nothing to lose boy was i wrong and i admit that i have a hypnofetish and find the thought of being changed against my will a big turn on. Iam really close to coming out

[PeppermintT]

I listened to the file as a reinforcement to the feminization files I was listening to at the time. I stopped listening to those files some time ago as I am trying to escape that particular fetish but still sometimes listen to CFG as it is very addictive. I don't intend to listen again though as I have issues with some of the suggestions eg. the humiliation aspect. Has anyone tried Sarnoga's "forever gay" file?

[sarnoga]

[quote="PeppermintT":/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i3b236e1]Has anyone tried Sarnoga's "forever gay" file?[/quote:/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i3b236e1]

Thanks for asking, Peppermint. I too would be very interested in hearing if anyone has tried my file and if so how it has affected them.

Sarnoga

[OutofTowner]

[quote="ftslave67":cc/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/ie46a/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i]OutOfTowner--why, indeed?

Maybe some guys are "bi-curious" or sublimating their feelings for other men, and this file, by making it seem coerced, removes some of the mental barriers.

Also. some people are attracted to or excited by risk-taking. So they listen. And they get hooked.[/quote:cc/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/ie46a/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i]

The excitement from risk-taking is pretty great but *checks porn* yeah. Not worth risking it. If you want to increase the install base I'd put in some final step. Like some recent file that made you like anal more had it so that after the second time you had anal, the curse was set. Increase desire and give suggestions that they should pursue it and if they're weak enough to do it twice or whatever, it's permanent. Then maybe we'll see fewer guys going gay because of their girlfriends.