Bored with lack of success

[Score_Under]

I'm bored with being completely useless with every file I try.

Some people report first-time successes, I have trouble even knowing if I'm going into trance or not.

I go about as far as pleasant relaxed sensations and anaesthesia on my arms and legs.

I always wonder how I should go about. Every piece of advice I've seen conflicts. People say not to concentrate too hard on it, EMG's induction tells me to concentrate on it, some people say it helps to mentally repeat the words to yourself as they're said, some people say it's best that your mind drifts. I have no idea who is right. I do know one thing, and that's that whatever I'm doing is horribly wrong.

No file so far works. It's annoying that I know I'm awake when I'm told to wake up. A little off-topic, but if I lie on my side, my earphones make my ears ache. If I lie on my stomach, my head is in a very awkward position. If I lie on my back, I sometimes get an almost irresistable urge to move. Add that on top of every distracting itch and noise, and you have one very full and distracted mind.

I once tried and failed to do wake-induced lucid dreaming, although it seems nobody can get that method of lucid dreaming to work anyway.

Anyway, sorry if I ramble and *please* do not tell me that trance is unique to each person, there must be something in common with each subject.

I'd really appreciate if someone could give me a little guidance which isn't self-contradictory. That, and a file that I could notice easily, works easily, and doesn't show itself from anyone else's point of view - just so that I know I'm making progress. I need some definite milestone to work with because I feel like my current progress is severely lacking. Yes, I listen at least once every day to a file (not always the same one, but hey), just before I go to sleep, and I will either remain painstakingly conscious or fall straight asleep when I listen.

[blahblah2]

I feel your pain man. I haven't had any success either. I try to listen more often but then it gets so boring.

[Hypnosisdragon]

Well, what files are you trying? Some files, like the transformation files, require either an extremely deep trance, or repetitive listening.

And the reason for conflicting info, is cos different things work for different people.

[whatthe75]

[quote="Score_Under":987bf/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/if5]
Anyway, sorry if I ramble and *please* do not tell me that trance is unique to each person, there must be something in common with each subject..[/quote:987bf/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/if5]

Sorry dude but it is.The problem with this site is that the files are pre made - which means the inductions are not made to suit the person being hypnotised.They are just a general induction which unfortunately wont work on all people,and you might be one of them.Each person requires a different style.Everyone is hypnotizable - but each person has their own ways of relaxing and going deep.

My recommendation is you go see a hypnotist - a good one should not use a pre made induction and go with the signs you are showing.

BUT before that, i might be able to help - you have no need to worry WHY your not entering trance.Answer me a simple question.There must be times or a place when you sit or lay down and be able to forget about the world and zone out,relax even,a favourite chair - watching a certain program,reading a book,or even riding on the bus.Tell me about that time and place,in detail ( and i mean your experience detail - NOT what colour the chair is etc).

[pyroid]

Hypnosis in a nutshell

Its guided suggestion. A large percentage of who we are and how we feel is mental. thats why its possible to stop smoking with hypnosis. I'll bet a couple files have sunk in its just you have given them the time to take affect. When I first started nothing work, but as I let that go and tried to practice at it instead of giving up I noticed it was more fun and I could go into trance quickly. Trance is different for everyone but I think from experience and what others told me it starts out similar. It's like rolling in and out of a dream ( a reason for the feeling of weightlesness and forgetting fractions of the file ) your not quiet alseep so some of the information is retained.

I suggest try some simple files like arm lift induction or a behavior file, something that does less physical change and more personal change. Do something thats close to home or just listen to different inductions till you find a hypnotist you like ( EMG and Cardigan as my personal fav's )

Another bump could be your worries. Do you live in a crowded home where you feel someone might disaprove of your actions? I feel that way in my house, I live with my grandparents ( I rent I don't free load ) and I worry they might stumble into something embarressing so I lock the door to my appartment or I leave a note saying I'm tired from work, be down in a couple hours. Something to lower the likely hood of them popping in uninvited.

[dottie]

The body positioning issue is obviously not going to help. I recommend finding a comfy chair you can lie back in, or a bed/sofa where you can prop up your whole upper body, head & neck into an incline with gobs of pillows & blankets so it is comfortable.

Listen to several induction styles to try them out -- While arm-lift inductions work for lots of people, they don't work for me at all. Confusion inductions work well for me, but I find that I'm more likely to twitch. So I listen to a relaxation induction coupled with the trance body files in a media player playlist. Try a few styles and see which style brings you deepest. If you tend to go under then wake back up, try a file with binaural beats - they tend to keep the mind in a relaxed state.

[url=http://www.isabellavalentine.com/2007/09/22/free-hypnosis-video-dont-watch-this-video/]This one (from another site)[/url] was probably the first thing I tried that worked. But I also [url=http://www.isabellavalentine.com/2007/07/10/experience-a-deeper-trance/]read this[/url] the same night and that helped a lot. Specifically the part about pretending that it is working even if you have doubts.

Yes, a common induction technique asks you to concentrate on the voice of the hypnotist, but don't kill yourself to do so. If your mind is drifting off, then your trance is actually deepening. The "focus on my voice" instruction will usually bring you back. But the basis of hypnotism is in giving suggestions directly to the subconscious, and to do so, the conscious mind needs to get out of the way.
There are several ways to do that -- you can be bored into a stupor (relaxation induction), you can overwhelm the mind (confusion or arm-pull), you can distract it (counting induction).
The "focus on my voice" instruction of an induction/deepener is really an instruction to the subconscious. Let your mind wander, and then let that instruction bring you back to the hypnotist.

[Alien4420]

I was puzzled by those different suggestions too, and tried this and that, until I finally realized that it doesn't really matter very much *what* you do! The focusing or not focusing, etc. are just means to achieve an end, a trance state. And a trance can in many cases be effective while it's still light, the visualization files to which you referred being one of the main exceptions and probably not a good thing to start with.

Going into trance is a skill, something that we all do naturally as for example when we watch a movie and forget that the action isn't real, or when we daydream. But it isn't normally something that we enter consciously, so the trick I think is to teach the conscious mind where the switch is that puts us into one. I agree that you should probably try working with a real life hypnotist. Your brain will learn that way how to reach the trance state, and you should be able then to do it with the inductions, and eventually without.

[Score_Under]

This:
[quote="dottie"][url=http://www.isabellavalentine.com/2/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i7//\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i9/22/free-hypnosis-video-dont-watch-this-video/]This one (from another site)[/url] was probably the first thing I tried that worked. But I also [url=http://www.isabellavalentine.com/2/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i7//\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i7/1/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i/experience-a-deeper-trance/]read this[/url] the same night and that helped a lot. Specifically the part about pretending that it is working even if you have doubts.[/quote]

and this:
[quote]Yes, a common induction technique asks you to concentrate on the voice of the hypnotist, but don't kill yourself to do so. If your mind is drifting off, then your trance is actually deepening. The "focus on my voice" instruction will usually bring you back. But the basis of hypnotism is in giving suggestions directly to the subconscious, and to do so, the conscious mind needs to get out of the way.
There are several ways to do that -- you can be bored into a stupor (relaxation induction), you can overwhelm the mind (confusion or arm-pull), you can distract it (counting induction).
The "focus on my voice" instruction of an induction/deepener is really an instruction to the subconscious. Let your mind wander, and then let that instruction bring you back to the hypnotist.[/quote]

Those were pretty much what I needed to know, I'll see if I get any results if I try that for a while. If someone could also recommend to me a fairly non-invasive file that I could use (without any effects being visible to anyone else :roll: ) then I'd be very grateful.

Also, call me silly but I wouldn't want to try one of those suggestibility tests, for example the one that makes your foot itch until you send the creator a PM, because... well, firstly their PM inbox may be full, secondly I might not have internet access right after listening to the file. And I don't want to be stuck with a horrible itch for a while, just because some hypnotist's ego was too large. :wink: I know it may sound a little petty considering most of the content of this site, heheh.

Alien([/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i-9]+) : I sometimes wish (for example) that Stephen Fry would segue into a hypnosis recording, because when I used to listen to the Harry Potter audio books, I used to get quite deeply engrossed in them.

I've once tried playing a fast videogame that required a lot of conscious focus while listening to a short hypnosis file (still with induction in - as I won't be focused on the game to start with), but it's probably predictable that this didn't work in the slightest, but it was worth a try. I have yet to learn the many quirks and nuances of my subconscious mind.

[KaynaEcho]

One thing I'd keep in mind is your definition of "awake." Granted, I'm currently at the point where I only respond to suggestions that involve definite body movement or sensation, but when I'm trancing, I'm not totally out. I'm definitely not fully lucid, but I'm still aware enough that I am aware of the sound of a light fan in the background (for example). I may or may not remember what happens while I'm in the trance, but I'm not out.

I also have a "full and distracted mind," and I'd recommend Blink's Basic induction. It uses a story combined with idle musings that give you a lot to focus on and actually *listen* to. If audiobooks get your attention, this might too.

Also, part of the whole "busy mind" thing: for me, right before bed is kind of a time for me to "settle accounts" with the day. I have most of my idle thoughts around that time, and as such, can't trance. If you're at all like me, I'd try a different time.
o
Finally, keep a good attitude about it. Hypnosis is essentially self-deception evolved to the highest point. As dumb as it sounds, you have to want it. Just as hypnosis doesn't work if you don't want to, it doesn't work if you think it will fail. Also, just because it doesn't work now doesn't mean it never will. Files that have failed for me before work for me now.

Best of luck. Once you succeed it is such a boost.

EDIT: As for the comfortable body position, a lot of that will come with experience. Try non hypnosis meditation or relaxation exercises to get your body and mind used to a total relaxation. Use odd itches to help you focus. Mind over matter. I find that when I focus on the speaker's voice in a file, the itch fades after a few seconds.

[ekluise]

It took me about a year of practice to be able to go into a deep trance. Trance is a skill. :)

[Alien4420]

[quote="Score_Under":2a6c/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i87]
Alien([/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i-9]+) : I sometimes wish (for example) that Stephen Fry would segue into a hypnosis recording, because when I used to listen to the Harry Potter audio books, I used to get quite deeply engrossed in them.[/quote:2a6c/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i87]

So it's established that you can go into a trance -- not everyone can -- and the question is why you haven't. I'm guessing that you're trying to use the analytical part of your mind to solve the problem of trance when trance consists of the opposite, of letting the analytical part of your mind fall into standby mode so you no longer judge whether things are true or not and they can register directly on the subconscious without the protective filter of rational judgment that we normally impose. In a light trance, that part of your mind is sitting in the background doing a minimal amount of processing. In a deep trance, it's almost entirely inactive, as it is when you're asleep.

When you listen to a story, you don't work at it. The writer engrosses you by introducing an interesting character with an interesting dilemma, generally in the first paragraph, then builds from there. And you forget yourself. You aren't trying to go into trance, you aren't working at it. Whereas if you sat there saying to yourself "I'm going to force myself to believe that people can ride on broomsticks and cast spells with magic wands" and trying to figure out the best way to do that, it probably wouldn't work, because the part of your mind that tries to do that sort of thing is the same part of your mind that determines truth from falsehood. It can't go into standby if it's operating in high gear.

An induction works just like a story. So the trick I think is to let go and let it do its thing. And to trust in the "narrator" -- the hypnotist -- since if you don't trust, the analytical part of your mind won't go to sleep, it will want to hang around to protect your subconscious mind. Eventually, as others have noted, the process becomes fairly automatic, in fact, you can go into a trance instantly, without an induction, because the conscious mind has learned how to put itself into a trance state.

But the essential thing is that trance is a letting go, a state in which your conscious mind is torpid rather than active.

[Score_Under]

[quote="KaynaEcho"]One thing I'd keep in mind is your definition of "awake." Granted, I'm currently at the point where I only respond to suggestions that involve definite body movement or sensation, but when I'm trancing, I'm not totally out. I'm definitely not fully lucid, but I'm still aware enough that I am aware of the sound of a light fan in the background (for example). I may or may not remember what happens while I'm in the trance, but I'm not out.

I also have a "full and distracted mind," and I'd recommend Blink's Basic induction. It uses a story combined with idle musings that give you a lot to focus on and actually *listen* to. If audiobooks get your attention, this might too.

Also, part of the whole "busy mind" thing: for me, right before bed is kind of a time for me to "settle accounts" with the day. I have most of my idle thoughts around that time, and as such, can't trance. If you're at all like me, I'd try a different time.
[/quote]
Yeah, I tried last night and realized that I had thoughts varying from how I should go about writing whichever piece of code I decided to focus on, to how interesting some people's journals are, to the digestion of the book on XSLT that I speed-read that day and the day before...
[quote]Finally, keep a good attitude about it. Hypnosis is essentially self-deception evolved to the highest point. As dumb as it sounds, you have to want it. Just as hypnosis doesn't work if you don't want to, it doesn't work if you think it will fail. Also, just because it doesn't work now doesn't mean it never will. Files that have failed for me before work for me now.

Best of luck. Once you succeed it is such a boost.

EDIT: As for the comfortable body position, a lot of that will come with experience. Try non hypnosis meditation or relaxation exercises to get your body and mind used to a total relaxation. Use odd itches to help you focus. Mind over matter. I find that when I focus on the speaker's voice in a file, the itch fades after a few seconds.[/quote]
Yeah, I remember doubting how some files could work when some people reported success, and I would think how they must just be imagining it... then I realize how stupid that sounds in context ;)

If only it were possible to make a hypnosis file to allow you to enter trance more easily, haha.

Alien442/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i: Seems in Blink's case, an induction *is* a story :lol:

[Blink]

[quote="Score_Under"]Alien442/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i: Seems in Blink's case, an induction *is* a story :lol:[/quote]

Shhh! We're getting to the boring part! ;)

Regarding the whole of the thread, I'll repeat something I've said before. Everybody's always worked up over inductions. There's no need to be.

Trance is a conversation you have with the subconscious. All you have to do is get the attention of the correct portion of the mind/brain and start talking. Remember that the subconscious is always present. It's always experiencing the full input on all sensory channels and filtering out what the conscious mind sees. The you in the back part of your mind is actually more tuned-in to reality than the you that you assume is reading this now.

Granted, a lot of the "getting attention" part has to do with expectations, but not all of it. Totally unexpected things can lead to trance just as readily and sometimes more easily than the heavily weighted expectations of a formal induction.

People who are talented at trancework, whether naturally or through regular practice, need no induction at all. The subconscious mind is aware that it might be called upon and is prepared to respond. It's ready to join the conversation.

Just relax now and learn. Just as you've always done. All your life.

You're doing fine.

-- Blink

[Score_Under]

[quote="Blink"]Shhh! We're getting to the boring part! ;)[/quote]
The "purple telephone" and the way you so naturally phrased it (as if we all have a purple telephone, that's perfectly normal ;) ) was just so random that I started laughing first time I heard it.

And thanks for that, although at this rate it's probably going to be a long while until I get anything at the moment.

[zapnosis]

*sigh*

You know, some things just come naturally to people, some things don't. I was trying to trance for 4 years before I really went under, 4 LONG YEARS, and even now I'm not sure if I've gone as far under as other people on here, or whether they would be amazed if they knew how deep I had gone. It's a personal journey. Fact is, for me it was worth it. If it isn't worth it for you, try something else.

This is psychology not magic, despite what some of the hypno-hippies say, and when it does happen it almost certainly won't be what you were expecting. Those are the facts of life. However, from what you have said you seem to have experienced some of the sensations of trance, so you are getting somewhere. Enjoy that feeling. Try different things and practice with what works best. Concentrate on relaxing as much as possible, NOT on how much the file is affecting you. File effects are something you have to work for and wait for and if you are lucky enough to experience some then it's all bonus. After all, what have you lost?

[Score_Under]

[quote="zapnosis":3a/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i4b26b]After all, what have you lost?[/quote:3a/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i4b26b]
Disk space... :lol:

(Note- Not saying that I've given up... far from it)

[FloridaPuppy]

[quote="Score_Under":/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i349c2f/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i]I've once tried playing a fast videogame that required a lot of conscious focus while listening to a short hypnosis file (still with induction in - as I won't be focused on the game to start with), but it's probably predictable that this didn't work in the slightest, but it was worth a try. I have yet to learn the many quirks and nuances of my subconscious mind.[/quote:/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i349c2f/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i]

Chop off the attempt to listen to hypnosis stuff while playing said video game and twist the remaining part of the situation around a bit. If you play a "fast video game that requires a lot of focus" for long enough, you will eventually slip into a form of trance anyways. There's you... the controller... the screen with the game... every other useless thing barely even registers mentally. Think about all the changes that you go through mentally when you drop down into that state, and practice them on your own a bit :)

[Score_Under]

[quote="FloridaPuppy":b/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i274f97]If you play a "fast video game that requires a lot of focus" for long enough, you will eventually slip into a form of trance anyways. There's you... the controller... the screen with the game... every other useless thing barely even registers mentally.[/quote:b/\[url=(https?:\/\/[^\s\[]+):$uid\](.*?)\[\/url:$uid\]/i274f97]
This was what I was trying to achieve... I suppose it was probably too short a time, though.

I may try recognising the mental changes there and practising it, but I wonder if that would instantly take me out of trance, or even if I'd have the capability to recognise it when it comes and act upon it. Also, I don't play video games as much now - I may start a little more again, but I've pretty much exhausted (played through entirely) my supply of "good" games.

I sometimes wonder if someone with a naturally logical manner as me could make use of any sort of hypnosis in a reasonable amount of time. I can't watch a film without dwelling over every little plot-hole and impossibility.
Also, I can program in ASM. ;)

[Ladon]

That's the sort of thing a live hypnotist would be better at, unfortunately its less than easy to find a live 'tist open to the kind of things WMM does, besides the discomfort many of us would feel disclosing our darker fantasies to someone. There, the trust issue comes into play, and further complicates things.

There are some things a recording just can't duplicate, like pacing, and compensating for resistance. That's not to say it won't work, a live person is just more effective.