Can hypnosis ever give what wasn't there to start with?

[zapnosis]

Hey all. Theory time. Having explored my dark side a bit, I am thinking of balancing things out a bit with a "self-help" file for Hypno-files. In fact it would not be "self-help" at all, but a Help File so that is what I shall call it for now. So as usual I start my very slow creative process by working out what I want to achieve... I start with the endgame and work backwards. Do I want to cure people with psychological illness? Sure, but I'm completely unqualified so it's out of the question. A stop smoking file? Been done often enough already. A "become super rich" file? Bullsh*t. Nope.

So finally I identify that I am looking at promoting a grab-bag of motivation, confidence, dealing with problems, believing in yourself... individuality... I realise that what I have been doing up until now is shutting down parts of the mind that obstruct the purpose of the file. It is subtracting from what is there, not adding to it. No shock there, but surely that is what mind control does anyway, that is what mind control is. So what do you think, people? Can hypnosis ever really give a person what they don't already have? And if not, then can you really help people to improve their lives using hypnosis? :?

[MzB]

So finally I identify that I am looking at promoting a grab-bag of motivation, confidence, dealing with problems, believing in yourself... individuality... I realise that what I have been doing up until now is shutting down parts of the mind that obstruct the purpose of the file. It is subtracting from what is there, not adding to it. No shock there, but surely that is what mind control does anyway, that is what mind control is. So what do you think, people? Can hypnosis ever really give a person what they don't already have? And if not, then can you really help people to improve their lives using hypnosis? :?

Seriously? This seems pretty straightforward to me. Yeah, no amount of hypnosis is going to make you grow a horn or another nipple, but you don't have to start from zero to do most things. And you can certainly do "additive" hypnosis rather than "subtractive" hypnosis.

Take a file that builds a new fetish. Sure, you might start by removing a shame impediment, (or if it is a really obscure fetish, you'd have to convince them that it could be pleasurable first) but then you'd want to add positive reinforcement, maybe associate it with some other positive experience, or a reward, etc. Then you'd want to have some sort of circular logic to build upon the seeds that you plant. All that is additive stuff.

[sarnoga]

.... then can you really help people to improve their lives using hypnosis? :?

Dr. Milton Erickson certainly believed that you could. There are many who believe that he did.

Regards,

Sarnoga

[Grima]

No shock there, but surely that is what mind control does anyway, that is what mind control is. So what do you think, people? Can hypnosis ever really give a person what they don't already have?

I'm rather new, so I don't know if this will amount to much, but hey, I'll give it a shot.

From what I understand, hypnosis revolves around suggestibility -- attempting to push the right buttons to invoke a particular behavior. That in itself, if we can agree that that's the general definition, suggests that the potential needs to be inherently within the subject from the beginning. Or, the parts at least. As MzB pointed out, you could develop an entirely new fetish for an individual. But how do you go about doing that? The easiest way would be to rework mental concepts within the subject, and reappropriate the relationship they have with one another. The behavior is new, but the potential to carry out the action was already inherent. Simply telling someone that they're becoming smarter won't, in itself, make them more intelligent, but it may allow them an excuse to set higher goals for themselves and attempt to improve. I don't know...

I suppose my answer would be a practical no, unless you wanted to stay with them day by day and teach pour specialized knowledge into their heads -- literally, teach them. Haha, that probably makes no sense xD.

[angel123]

Simply telling someone that they're becoming smarter won't, in itself, make them more intelligent, but it may allow them an excuse to set higher goals for themselves and attempt to improve. I don't know...

I suppose my answer would be a practical no, unless you wanted to stay with them day by day and teach pour specialized knowledge into their heads -- literally, teach them. Haha, that probably makes no sense xD.

I tend to agree .... I don't think that really hypnosis does actually make you do something that you wouldn't already 'be able to do' or 'consider doing' .... people can be brainwashed sure, but it's already there in them and all of us ..... :?

[BobbyS]

I tend to agree .... I don't think that really hypnosis does actually make you do something that you wouldn't already 'be able to do' or 'consider doing' .... people can be brainwashed sure, but it's already there in them and all of us .....

Let's not forget though, brainwashing is a very different process to hypnosis.

Just my two cents is that, yes, it can be additive. While it's true that a file to ADD a new fetish is only likely to work if the subject is okay with it, surely it's the same with 'subtractive' suggestions, like the one to quit smoking.
With regards to self-help, I think suggestions like 'confidence boosting' can be done in an 'additive' or 'subtractive' way, ie removing doubts and worries, or simply adding a sense of confidence when approaching things that normally cause concern.

[angel123]

[quote=''angel123'']people can be brainwashed sure, but it's already there in them and all of us .....[/quote]

Let's not forget though, brainwashing is a very different process to hypnosis.

Just my two cents is that, yes, it can be additive. While it's true that a file to ADD a new fetish is only likely to work if the subject is okay with it, surely it's the same with 'subtractive' suggestions, like the one to quit smoking.
With regards to self-help, I think suggestions like 'confidence boosting' can be done in an 'additive' or 'subtractive' way, ie removing doubts and worries, or simply adding a sense of confidence when approaching things that normally can use concern.

Yes, you are right Bobby, thanks .... :wink:

[zapnosis]

Thanks for your replies all.

Let's not forget though, brainwashing is a very different process to hypnosis.

This is a very good point... one that few people seem to appreciate. I guess that what I am looking for here is the opposite of brainwashing, but you can't simply turn the negatives into positives and I refuse to rely on the power of hypnotic suggestion. If someone tends to worry, that is a part of their personality. You can tell them not to worry, but when the suggestion wears off they will worry again, perhaps about why the suggestion isn't still working! There are files of this kind, and I'm glad of it for the good that they do and the foundation they provide for further improvement, but I don't think that I can do them any better.

I remember something I read once about the difference between psychology and what was called "headology". When confronted with a man who is convinced that he is being chased by a terrible beast, a psychologist will attempt to convince the man that the beast does not exist. A headologist will give him a chair to stand on and a big stick. I need to find a headological approach... hmmm...

[WickedJack]

I remember something I read once about the difference between psychology and what was called "headology". When confronted with a man who is convinced that he is being chased by a terrible beast, a psychologist will attempt to convince the man that the beast does not exist. A headologist will give him a chair to stand on and a big stick. I need to find a headological approach... hmmm...

To learn more about the excellent art of Headology, I would refer you all to any book by Terry Pratchett that features Granny Weatherwax (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granny_Weatherwax). Judging by the similarity between your comment and the linked Wiki, you've either read the wiki or the book recently!

From that link:

She has starred in six Discworld novels (Equal Rites, Wyrd Sisters, Witches Abroad, Lords and Ladies, Maskerade and Carpe Jugulum), has appeared briefly in Wee Free Men, acted as a significant supporting character in A Hat Full of Sky and Wintersmith, and was referenced in three other Discworld books (by name in Mort, and anonymously in Thief of Time as well as Going Postal). She also appeared in the short story "The Sea and Little Fishes" and in The Science of Discworld II: The Globe.

Then read the other ones, because they are great.

[softline]

I tend to agree .... I don't think that really hypnosis does actually make you do something that you wouldn't already 'be able to do' or 'consider doing' .... people can be brainwashed sure, but it's already there in them and all of us ..... :?

I disagree with this statement.

When you talk about "be able to do" you are talking about skills. Some skills are just to difficult to convey through hypnosis largely because of the time required to teach the skill. For example cooking or carpentry. One the other hand I heard of a rather successful expierment where people put an iduction on the front of some commercially avialable foriegn language instruction tapes. The also added some instructions at the end that told the listner there would remember everything on the tape along with a wake up. Language comprehension increased dramatically. Obviously if you try and impossible skill like flying its not going to work.

When you talk about 'consider doing' this is a completely different matter. I have the most successful way to get someone to do something that they would not 'consider doing' is put the suggestion in terms of something they really want. Everyone has deep down secret desires that they often have revealed to noone. Hypnosis can help find out what they are.

If you then suggest to someone that if they do the thing they would not consider doing they will get their heart's desire, they usually end up doing the thing that they would not 'consider doing'. For example a subject expressed the desire to keep her sometime addicted younger sister away from drug dealers. The subject was told when she woke up that the man she saw accrss the room was on his way to make a delivery to her sister and the only way to save her sister was to keep the man with her. The subject went extrodinary lengths to keep the man there including sleeping with him.

The files on this site are not dangerous in this regard because they are so generic. Howevery as a general statement about hypnotism this is not true.